Job Discussion Forums

[Roger]

MW, don't put on too thick of your moralising! The term "prostitute" does not ring the same in Chinese, definitely less demeaning than it does to a Christian! A Chinese girl once readily admitted that there was only a small difference between marrying for money and being a working girl - it is in the number of clients! In fact, many Chinese girl do this with absolutely no compunction! They take advantage of men, and men take advantage of them!
Not that I condone it! But the girls are not "victims" of men, they choose this as much as some men choose to stay single.
And the notion that they marry in order to secure themselves a haven in a safe Western country, well, they are after the passport, not the nationality or democratic rights as such! Just ask one of the many Americans divorced by their Chinese wives after only a handful of years!

[MW]

Roger:

Hate to be the new kid on the block and have a major blow out with a seasoned vet like you so quickly but that is life. The argument that prostitutes choose that line of work is a well worn justification for men abusing women. It is the same as the claim that homeless people are in that state by choice, and that black people are born inferior. Or, it is like saying sweat shops at least provide some income to children who would otherwise starve. It is all trash.

Read the letter from the people who walked out of Delter on the job information journal. The "prostitutes" have been denied certain rights and privileges since that incident.

We all act voluntarily, but the degree of voluntariness depends greatly upon our circumstances.

The divorce rate for foreign wives to U.S. men (partricularly from the Philippines) is so high in the U.S. that there is a recent law that if there is a divorce within two years of marriage, the foreign wife is deported.

Roger, someone must take a moral stand, why not you? Each foreigner in China leaves an impression that effects the local view of of the local ppeople regarding that foreigner's home country. Each of us should set a good example as representing our home country. We are all embassadors.

By the way, I am new to this forum and certainly do not consider myself a China expert, but I have been in China since 1978 and am married to a wonderful Chinese lady. She has never been to my home country and has no desire to go. She is a PhD in English at a major top tier university and her English is better than mine in many aspects.

Yes, I have a daughter and I warn her away from the foreigners who just want to promise her anything to bed her but who have that lust in their eye rather than love.

[Roger]

MW,
I understand your feelings, but I do not go for your generalisations, and that's why I made my point about 'moralising'!
I do not consider blacks "inferior". Sadly, some in my family were happier before Nelson Mandela came to power in that country, than I was when blacks were denied equality status and a modicum of respect. Whites used to call mixed-blood people '*beep*"! Intermarriage across the ethnic lines was illegal! Who cannot say that this is stupid and immoral?

But you should admit that your wife of so many years is a bit unique! And, I fully endorse the US' government's policy on marriage with foreign nationals. Interestingly, it is mainly women from certain countries, not men, that secure themselves a green card, and later divorce! The countries famous for their export of such women are: Thailand, China. I do not know more details, but I certainly am aware of this trend as not being confined to the USA!

I also regret that too many men from certain countries are poaching in certain countries, and, unfortunately, Americans are high on the list of wife or girlfriend seekers in East Asia! What does this say about these men, their home countries, and about their destinations? Surely the picture is not white versus black. I don't agree that it is merely a men's problem!

If you have been in China since 1978 (when China just began opening itself again!), then you must have noticed the tremendous socioeconomic and moral changes! Back in the 1980's, I travelled on two occasions across China - one short trip in 1983 from Moscow to China and on to Hong Kong, and in 1987, a trip from Nepal to TIbet, China and Hong Kong.
Prostitutes were totally absent back in those years, even from Hainan, which I also visited in 1988! How about today? How about the proliferation of AiDS? A "foreign men's problem", this one too???

Oh, I do know steadfast Chinese girls, or ladies! I know women that ask you to step outside your door for a chat. I also appreciated that landlady that used to collect my rental; when she came around she always was in the company of either a girlfriend of hers or her husband! I was glad - really!
But too many young girls make their sexual desires plain to me without any ceremony!

[MW]

Roger: What a relief to know that we have so much common agreement. I was afraid that we wre going to but heads on this one. Whew!

Funny you should mention Hainan. That was my first stop in 1978 before there was any tourism.

Yes, the girls solicit foreigners openly. They are desperate. As gentlemen of higher culture and society, we can "JUST SAY NO" and resist the temptation to take advantage of their desparation.

[arioch36]

"A Chinese girl once readily admitted that there was only a small difference between marrying for money and being a working girl - it is in the number of clients! In fact, many Chinese girl do this with absolutely no compunction! They take advantage of men, and men take advantage of them! "

Actually, you often hear this statement from jaded men and women in many countries. I hear it from American men whos wives have just divorcerd them.

Strange elements of truth and untruth juxtaposed.

Most prostitiutes, the large majority, don't do it for the money, or because they want to do it. Most of them don't like like smelly fat old men climbing all over them, putting things in various places.
Most prostitutes were sexually abused, and were twisted into the lifestyle. Many runaway teens find it the only way to make money and live. Do any of you men really belive the prostitute likes you and what she does?
that being said, I guess it is possible for a women/ girl to marry because she has been forced to, or has no other way to survive. Or also, she has been taught all of her life that this is what she is supposed to do (As you may know, many prostitutes are forced to start at very young ages, because many men demand them that way, and so know no other way of life). But prostitutes should not be demeaned by comparing them to the calculating woman who coldly plans to marry just to gain money.
I think usually such women use this statement to justify their cheating ways (deceiving the man into believing she loves him), or to justify other such things. It is a self-serving statement, and should not be confused with the truth of the matter.
Okay, I'll get of my high horse for now. I guess I have a heart towards prostitutes because of my own background, and knowing the forces of life that have coerced them into such a lifestyle.

[pistonear]

To Edward,
If you had booked the hotel room would you have had the morality issue anyway? I hope that they don't expect you to behave like a monk because you are a foreigner? Or is it because it is just consider to be in poor taste? Could the director have really been thinking of the young lady's virtue? Please elaborate.