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The demise of ESL
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mandalayroad



Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering how status-conscious Koreans are, I don't see most Korean parents accepting their kids being taught by Filipino teachers, rather than Western ones.

English will be the international language for the foreseeable future and there's no way Mandarin Chinese (which I speak) is going to supplant it in our lifetimes. If you plan to do this long term then the best way to make money is to marry a local and start your own school someplace. Americans who I knew who did that in Taiwan made money hand over fist, and then eventually sell off the business to a local for a big payday. Of course, if you go to China to teach you're not going to make much money; China has never been good for the money. If you want a salaried position, making good money, then head to the Middle East. There are still plenty of opportunities to make good money if you open your eyes and see the possibilities. Adapt or die as someone else said.
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget to factor in how technology can, to a degree, replace some of our functions. With the advent of DVDs with subtitles and interactive programs, there are some aspects of language learning where having a live native speaker that you have to pay gobs of money to on a regular basis is not so critical.
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throwdownyourcrutches



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 36
Location: On the road to El Dorado

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with wages in the TEFL industry is the oversupply of teachers because of the very low barriers to entry. Anyone with a few thousand dollars in the bank and a passport can embark on a wonderful adventure. The internet is a wonderful resource to research all the various options and I suspect that western demographic trends will conspire to keep wages low for the next half century! Soon you will have a glut of retiring baby boomers looking for new and interesting things to do that will be able to live very well in the developing world on their assets, pensions and social security type payments. They will not have to earn a large wage and may be more welcomed by their communities than someone perceived as just passing through. And then there is the issue of substitution brought on by technology. Poor little Somchai in rural Isann or Jose in rural Oaxaca have the internet at their fingers for pennies and can access learning sites unavailable a generation ago. The number of people learning English now is probably larger than it has ever been but the sources for getting that education are also very plentiful now. The only way to really succeed in this industry, if you measure success in money, is to make yourself better than the competition and there are many ways to do that but it is hard work and takes a long time.
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phantombedwetter



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Pikey infested, euro, cess-pit (Krakow)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

william wallace wrote:
My first two posts are more than ample evidence,and I've never been one to try and defend the obvious.
China is my favourite example:
1994- 1900-2400 RMB (8.3= 1usd)
1996- 1900-6000
1998- 3000-12000 (inflation about 5%)
1999- 3000- 18000
2002- 3500- 20000
2004- 4000- 18000
2006- 4000- 15000
2008- 2200- 12000 (inflation about 10-15%) (7.5=1 usd)
I often talk with a former colleague who's been in ESL since 1952, and he agrees with me.
Also Korea is about to allow folks from the Philippines into ESL.
It is not unusual to have cheerful newbies(with the sacred qualifications CELTA,DELTA,TESOL et al) happily accept 3500 RMB(2008) with only a portion or airfare,NO health come to China oblivious to the previous years payments-For the very same work
Where are the jobs advertising for Spain and Italy now?? Check out those boards to see how viable it is to work there now.
If oil continues to rise...that would be enough there to end ESL.

A real "On The Beach" phenomenon here!

You're still at it aren't you? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
a former colleague who's been in ESL since 1952

Blimey, he's getting on a bit for this malarkey, isn't he?
He must be about 80
Does he sit in the corner of a classroom, using chalk, and smelling of wee?

I agree with you to some point. things are more difficult for the 'Backpacker' crowd, but reasonably qualified, experienced teachers seem to be still ok. (if they're any good).
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, Microsoft, having replaced us completely with robots, will have to issue the robots credit cards. Citibank will cheerfully comply, as they won't know how else to squeeze blood from a rock. Razz
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With the advent of DVDs with subtitles and interactive programs, there are some aspects of language learning where having a live native speaker that you have to pay gobs of money to on a regular basis is not so critical.


True for westerners but you are forgetting that for many Asians, learning only takes place with a teacher. The cannot seem to comprehend that you can learn by yourself. I could definitely learn a foreign language without a so called teacher. To begin with, if we take two people with average or above average intelligence, one with a skilled teacher and one without. Even if the one who had a moron teacher spend their free time trying to watch movies and reading books in the target language they would acquire more of the target language. No teacher can make up for a students natural ability and a students effort to immerse themselves in the target language.


Last edited by JZer on Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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william wallace



Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Phantom,
I'm back teaching with the "backpackers"(???) after 11 years away from them. In this group we have MBAs, PGCEs,PhD,M.TESOL...etc. Now most seem not to recognize this teaching bit as a career,but they are conscientious about the customers under their charge. The only thing that is different than the university and colleges I had taught at during this interim was that the serious teachers were not fun/jovial - the qualifications were the same..scattered in all directions.

The fellow who had been in ESL since 1952 is about 78 years old, and the last I had heard(3 years ago) was that he still worked for the British Council- The only one remaining out of about 20 originals,save for an Aussie gal.
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
Quote:
With the advent of DVDs with subtitles and interactive programs, there are some aspects of language learning where having a live native speaker that you have to pay gobs of money to on a regular basis is not so critical.


True for westerners but you are forgetting that for many Asians, learning only takes place with a teacher. The cannot seem to comprehend that you can learn by yourself. I could definitely learn a foreign language without a so called teacher. To begin with, if we take two people with average or above average intelligence, one with a skilled teacher and one without. Even if the one who had a moron teacher spend their free time trying to watch movies and reading books in the target language they would acquire more of the target language. No teacher can make up for a students natural ability and a students effort to immerse them in the target language.


No argument. I'm not "forgetting", though. I deal with similar attitudes with Russians, and I teach the ones I get hold of to do more independent thinking. Smile
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

william wallace wrote: