Job Discussion Forums

[englishgibson]

I know these two proficiency exams and topics around them have been discussed on forums before, but I would like to get a new inside into both of them.

From the discussion on boards, I have not seen many foreign teachers in TOEFL here in China. I also have not seen or known any foreign teachers involved in preparation for such exams. None of the teachers that I know have taught TOEFL to students in China, although I know quite a few Chinese English teachers teaching it. Then, I have tried to take a look at New Oriental that apparently is involved in the TOEFL program in China and only Chinese teachers are involved in this.

Recently as I know, speaking (to computers) has been added to the TOEFL exams and I am wondering who speaks on those computers to the students. Also, I've overheard that IELTS is going to have a similar exam process as TOEFL since the IELTS examiners are driving costs of those exams up. It's only from the horse's mouth so don't shoot me please.

Now, I am greatly involved in a foundation program for Chinese students who apply to western unis and those two proficiency exams are a part of my students' prep. I'd appreciate any info on either of the two exams mentioned, although I am quite familiar with IELTS.

To be honest, one reason behind my enquiry on here is that my employer has asked me whether I'd be interested in going for a TOEFL training for TOEFL teachers in either Shanghai or Beijing. I have not taught TOEFL much and judging by the TOEFL books available in China, I am not interested in this program at all.

In any case, I hope to hear from you guys on.

As the Chinese pronounce the TOEFL tofu, I'd say
Cheers and beers to a stinky tofu at 3 am out there

[lingcod]

Having taught the same course you teach (the two English courses, Science and Business as well as ACT, TOEFL and IELTS), I can not think of a good method of teaching TOEFL that will not be resisted. The students will revert to the local teacher programs to get instruction in their natural language. It sucks and lowers scores, but is life here.

If you have any questions about the course, please PM me, although you should take into account I am not bright enough to teach Math or IT.

[Neilhrd]

TOEFL has had a number of problems, both conceptual and technical, with the integrated skills syllabus that was introduced in 2006 as TOEFL iBT.

Personally I support the idea because integrated skills are necessary to survive in a western academic environment. Chinese students have regarded speaking, listening, reading and writing as seperate subjects in sealed boxes for far too long. Anything that breaks that mould is fine with me. ETS, which makes the TOEFL test, under estimated the difficulty of introducing iBT in Asian countries where traditional grammar translation teaching methods still predominate. Chinese candidates still score below the world average of 78 but there has been a small improvement since 2006 unlike IELTS where the average band score for Chinese candidates is declining and the percentage gaining university entrance standards is among the lowest in the world.

TOEFL have now recognised the problems and are trying to provide genuine teacher training in China. This is no easy matter as the Chinese government has historically resisted any foreign involvement in teacher training so I applaud their efforts. I have accepted an invitation to attend a TOEFL Propell training course in Shanghai next week and am looking forward to it very much.

As far as the speakers are concerned they are all from western countries and unlike IELTS they don't use a variety of non native accents in the listening test.

Text books in China are a far more serious problem. In Nanning it is impossible to get books which teach TOEFL in English instead of talking about it in Chinese. In practice, given the government censorship of bookshops here, the only way this is going to change is by foreign teachers demonstrating the superiority of internet based materials and attracting students that way. To do this it is essential to have access to TOEFL Preparation On Line which comes with the training courses now on offer.

IELTS is considering adopting an online test in the future but as far as I know no decision has yet been reached. It will come down to demand. TOEFL is still accepted by far more universites and taken by far more candidates than IELTs and they have to do something to compete as a business.

[flutterbayou]

Gibson,

I am an iBT TOEFl trainer and will send you my two PowerPoints if you pm me with an email address.

To quickly answer a few of your questions, some of the tasks on the exam are integrated. For instance, the test taker will listen to a lecture over headphones and will be asked a question about it. The test taker has 20 seconds to jot down a few ideas before hearing a beep, at which time (s)he has 45 seconds to give a complete and accurate response.

Other oral responses will include a 45 second talk on a topic of interest (independent speaking task) and then listening to a campus-oriented conversation, ı.e., student/advisor, student/student, student/book store clerk... after which the recording stops, the test taker is given a question - again by audio - and then there is the 20 second time frame to collect one's thoughts before giving a full 45 second response.

Very different from the IELTS, where the test taker can prepare a few talks on familiar subjects in advance.

Shall look for your pm!

There are several other integrated-type tasks and my PowerPoints cover them all.

[flutterbayou]

I sent them each under separate cover because each file sıze is large.

Let me know what shows up!

Cheers and beers to those who care about teaching.

[Joe C.]

[North China Laowei]

[Joe C.]

[englishgibson]

lingcod, and flutterbayou thanx for sending me all that info on toefl

[Joe C.]

[englishgibson]

and i was under that assumption that the sound UK education was geared more towards educating rather than business ... i mean comparing to the hungry private unis in USA where they even award scolarships to those lovely chinese high school grads at elementary level of english...go figure that one

assuming the language ability is fundamental for a uni in a foreign country first and then the ability to cope with the major chosen by the student, it looks like TOEFL in china has been failing..but forgive my professional observation here

i've always prefered speaking to a person rather than a computer and then having my written work corrected by a teacher too...again my own feelings...we're living in the "computer era" and it sure can safe loads of cash for anyone in biz

i've procrastinated on this one below

[Joe C.]

[englishgibson]

afghanistan..to major in pyrotechnics

a few months ago i watched a program on one of those chinese channels (can't remember which one) with ch-western uni grads that've (actually)returned to china..from those lovely grads tv interviews i could see how much they learnt..they tried some english on and off, but whatever they said did not really make much of a sense...what i could understand though was that they had troubles finding jobs back in their homeland..maybe, they chose those kinda ones to raise awarness in this lovely country with unis filled up to the limit

cheers and beers to both english language proficiency exams in china that face such a pressure of the chinese market (and who knows who else) to pass some students for abroad studies

[Joe C.]

[englishgibson]

the 1-year masters programs puzzle me...some of my students are telling me they're up for those programs...i mean some of'em either haven't finished their unis here in china or joined a uni at all

apparently, there's a uni in beijing that offers some programs which include this 1-year masters in UK...i've got one student that's getting ready to pass IELTS this year..but she's just finish her first year in beijing

i am just wondering what the western education will be like in 20 or 30 years from now

cheers and beers to globalizing and global education as well as cheers and beers to educational programs abroad that take a complete advantage of filthy rich chinese with their hopeless kids