Job Discussion Forums

timothypfox · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 492

Going back to the comment that a PhD is helpful back in the United States or Canada - I would tend to refute that point. A PhD can take up to 8 years during which you can expect to work as an adjunct professor (part time work - pays less than public school teaching) and must struggle to finance your degree with limited scholarships available. It could be done while working as a public school teacher in the day - but this is very tough and demanding to do as many programs prefer full time PhD students. Then even if you secure an entry level tenure track position at a college or university you will begin as an assistant professor at about $50 K a year. However, in public school education in New York - two master's degrees can get you a much higher entry level salary than this. You can eventually make a little more as a professor - but only substantially more at Ivy league schools with your publications - and by the time you do you could be 20 years into your career in public education and 5 years off of retirement time!

New York City and many other cities in the US will bump up your salary for each year of experience you have teaching ESL at private language schools around the world. New York City and other cities will also bump up your salary in public education for a non-teaching masters. With 2 MA's and 8 years of working as an ESL teacher - you will earn more than 70K without a PhD in the New York City system. (Not to mention alternate certification programs - in abundance in the US - will pay for your MA in education and give you a job).

So PhD's in education can't really be in it for the money - although it could be useful for supplementary income. i.e. adjunct teaching at night after a day of public school teaching or getting into college as a professor after retiring from 25 years (fully pensioned) from public school teaching - might be a reason to get a PhD.

While I can't speak for other countries, Japan has a rigid glass ceiling with regards to hiring foreign professors for more than a few years. There are only a handful of universities that hire permanently in Japan - but those I believe are seriously competitive. There are international language schools in Japan that credit you for having a PhD, but not too much more compensation.

But, frankly I think I'd rather do another stint of Eikawa teaching in Japan and collect a retirement pension from my work as a public school teaching after I "retire."

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

I don't have a PhD, but have a couple of friends who do, and a few more who are pursuing them. If it's as much fun as it looks like, I probably will one day as well.

But that's the thing- if you're in education, you presumably know by now that you're not in it just for the money. If extremely in-depth research into aspects of teaching and learning that haven't been thoroughly researched yet appeals to you, then you might enjoy doing a PhD. If you have ideas that you feel are worth publishing and sharing, a PhD may help you.

If you're thinking money, I could suggest a LOT of better ways to spend your training budget than a PhD in anything related to education.

Best,
justin

Horizontal Hero · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:27 am Post subject:

[quote="Marcoregano"]

Horizontal Hero · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:38 am Post subject:

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Horizontal Hero · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:36 am Post subject:

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

In a typical U.S. university, expect to teach/work in a department of linguistics or department of English. Depending on your Ph.D. field, you might also teach/work in a department/school of education. You would be teaching prospective teachers and scholars. You would not, of course, be teaching English.

You would not usually be considered for such jobs without a Ph.D. Your annual starting salary as an assistant professor in a tenure-track job might range from US$40K to US$60K, depending on the university (but salaries vary widely).

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:24 am Post subject:

Some people are just inherently sourpusses. I wouldn't do a PhD, or much of anything else, if I didn't think I was going to enjoy it. Life's too short, frankly.

But do I expect career advancement? Absolutely. And so far, I've had a lot, within EFL. I'm in the middle of a masters, which I am enjoying a lot, and am already getting offers for when I finish it. Already pretty much working at masters level anyway.

You guys who can't seem to stop whining make me tired. Nobody GIVES you a nice life in any field of endeavour. You gotta TAKE it. And if you're ready, willing, and able to do that, EFL is as good a place as any. And better for me. (Because I enjoy it.)

Best,
justin

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

illegalme · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:53 am Post subject:

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

illegalme · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:12 am Post subject:

Sarcasm...WTG

I posted the obvious because the argument being made is a moot point.

The field of research and education in general has a very small 'career ladder' available. It's not unique to TEFL/TESOL. So I don't understand the nature of the complaints.

Furthermore, PhD's are not MBA's or other such professional higher educational qualifications, they are not designed to be particularly transferable or marketable (because to design them that way would defeat the point) and thus are not necessarily desirable to employers* (of course this depends on how closely the research area relates to the job).

For example, someone who does a PhD in TESOL or TEFL (of which there are many at my uni) do so because they are interested in researching the field, or teaching teachers, not to further their English Instruction job prospects.

I don't think this is bad thing though. Why would anyone subject themselves to that kind of intensive study unless the study was an end in itself? It's far too full on to pursue for the sake of more money.

*the exception being engineers
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