Job Discussion Forums

N'Nuther Brick · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 23

Anyone who's read my posts regarding Eduworld and maybe some other schools in HCMC might be wondering if I'm the nutter and the schools are OK. I've had more than the requisite amount of screwing lately and AELS was just the latest. Here's the story:

Worked there for a month and had the branch manager all over my ass for not dressing well. He said I should look "posh". Well, anyone who's seen the joint knows it ain't exactly Highlands Coffee and this guy's idea of posh could be closely related to what a Vietnamese salaryman wears when he's going to Highlands instead of a little plastic chair street cafe. I was wearing a pair of Brioni loafers at the time.

In any case, I worked there for a few weeks and heard complaints from management the whole time. I dress poorly. I start class late. I take breaks in a 90 minute period, etc.

This seemed extremely incongruous with the attitude of the class. My class were all adults and if anything, I felt the school had intentionally rated them as beginners so as to be able to provide more "educational opportunities" to them via wallet fleecing at the front desk. These people could all converse for five minutes on their own in a personal introduction and ended up sending me emails and researching class discussion topics on the Internet and printing out newspaper articles to bring to class. They were excellent.

So I took the opportunity to survey the class myself. I constructed a survey of all the elements of ones educational experience including facility, textbooks, staff service, library resources, computer resources, teacher involvement, teacher level and degree and teacher delivery style and appearance. The survey covered 20 statements about the school and 20 statements about the teacher, with each statement being rated on a five point scale from "strongly agree" to "strongly disagree", such as "toilets are clean and appropriately stocked", "teacher is professionally dressed". I scored a 79 on that survey with the school clocking in at a 65. They have dirty toilets.

I presented those results to the school and the complaints went away. The class became more and more animated and together we formed a tight, active discussion group.

Things seemed to be going well.

And then came payday. I was shorted $2 an hour from my negotiated rate and had to fidget with them for a week to get the balance.

And then came the second payday. After being promised that pay would be delivered early in the afternoon one Friday, I waited for 4 and a half hours with no cash in sight. I then moved from the supposed pay branch to my assigned teaching branch and continued to wait for pay.

As my class approached at 5:30pm I more than sternly told the director that if I didn't see pay, I could not teach the class.

Pay arrived at exactly 5:30.

I went to my classroom and found no students. The students had been halted at the front door and were told the class was canceled because I was "busy".

The students emailed me through the weekend and implored me to do the next class on Monday. On Monday I arrived for my scheduled class and found another teacher, on his first assignment for the school, in my room.

AELS had forgotten to tell me I had been fired.

They still owe me a week's pay.

I continue to work at two much more organised schools at $18+ an hour and have been contracted to design a multimedia English lab and program for another.

I miss my AELS students tho. They were excellent.

menso35 · Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 51

What sucks is that in situations like the one you described the people hurt the most are the students.

Why is EFL, particularly in Asia, so corrupt? I have worked in sales, including car sales and insurance sales, and have never seen the shenanigans I have seen in EFL.

Many students need to learn English for their jobs, to go study abroad,etc. For many not learning English is not an option. When I was in Korea, some peoples career's were predicated upon achieving proficiency in English. It seems like their fellow countrymen are screwing them nine ways to Sunday with their greed, lack of attention to quality, and constant driving away of foreign native speakers.

Rabbit81 · Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 32

N'Nuther Brick · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 23

I LOL'd at Menso35's comment that he'd been a used car salesman and had never seen the kind of corruption in that business that he's seen in EFL!

I've worked in the advertising business and while I'd never nominate anyone in the industry for sainthood I can say that they have been a whole lot more forthright and honest than many of the crooks I've met running schools here.

When used car salesmen and advertising people start rating higher on the social respect food-chain that school owners, that's something to worry about.

Tanker · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 72

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

Hey, I understand that there are schools that do the dirty on some teachers, but it sounds like you are quite familiar with Vietnam. Shouldn't you be able to see these things coming? What I mean is you should be use to schools placing students in lower levels in order to make more money. Deal with it. Move on or simply adjust your lesson.

I have read your post about EDU world and it seems you dont understand how things work here, so it maybe time for you to get on your bike. I have always been a believer that if you dont like something than don't stick around. I see and hear so many teachers here complaing about schools and how they can do things better. I am sick of it. And by the way, if you conducted a survey in my school like you did. I would have fired you as well.

Tanker · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 72

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

I understand where you are coming from regarding the survey, but I would still fire someone who did a personal survey without the knowledge of the management. Or at least asking their permission to do the survey first. I have to work very hard to make any kind of changes in my school and it takes a certain kind of approach. An approach that can be upset by foreign teachers stepping outside their role. Something like that, in my experience can cause a lot of hard work go down the drain.

I have been in Vietnam for about 3 years now. I have worked at a few schools, not too many and i have witnessed people try to make change by going about it completely the wrong way.

If people want to make change or think that change is necessary they should first realize that Vietnam still uses a 'relationship driven' model in regards to business. You will never implement change unless you are considered close to the people in charge.

You are correct about class sizes and trying to pay teachers lower salaries. Why the heck don't teachers, especially experienced teachers recognize this and then leave. And don't tell me becasue it is to help the students. How does it help the students by you staying on in a crap school? Students will soon realize and then they will leave.

I love teaching here and I love living here. I suppose I just get fed up with walking into schools and hearing foreign teachers complain about what is wrong and how they could do better.

Rabbit81 · Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 32

teacherviet · Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 18

A school or teacher can obtain some information about a teacher, the school etc by conducting a survey. However, one must have some knowledge about Vietnam, the Vietnamese learner and how education is regarded in Vietnam in order to conduct a survey properly. Education is highly regarded in Vietnam due to the influence of confucianism and most Vietnamese will not write or say anything negative about their teacher etc. In particular, if the teacher is conducting the survey! Therefore, a teacher should never give the survey. The survey should be given by one of the Vietnamese staff and that person should also try to obtain information directly from the students through an informal discussion. The Vietnamese learner would prefer to give negative information about a teacher by this system rather than a formal survey.

What does the scent of rabbit feces smell like?

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

No problem. I wouldn't allow a teacher to do a survey of a class especially one not preapproved by management as it would not get legitimate results in regards to the teachers teaching abiltiy or classroom conduct. Most students will not give negative feedback on a survey delivered by their own teacher about their own teacher.
By no means am I scared of what a survey will show because you are correct they are a uselful tool to improve schools just as long as they are conducted correctly unlike a survey conducted to simply prove a point to management.

With regards to relationship driven business I was more so speaking about the inner handlings of schools and not so much relationships between teachers and students. Any foreigner who works in management in Vietnam will know and understand the difficulties that we face everyday.

Yes, you are correct I don't sound like a foreign teacher bec a normal foreign teacher would not side with the Vietnamese. Read the thousands of posts that do nothing that complain about how things are done in schools in all countries. Again, let me say if you don't like how things are done then leave. It is no problem.

"I've read your other posts. Enjoy you brief time here, because we all smell the same thing."

Not entirely sure what this means. But I am quite established here with an excellent job and very profitable business so I think I will stick around.

H5N1 · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 80