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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I would imagine that's all as clear as mud by now, obinhwan! 
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| obinhwan wrote: |
Hehe, thx guys, this both helps and hurts, the pain being the headache I feel coming on.
Now even if "the idea" is already established, I still don't see "puts across it" as being correct. |
It's not, believe me. I think MO39's example showed that. |
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obinhwan
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| obinhwan wrote: |
Hehe, thx guys, this both helps and hurts, the pain being the headache I feel coming on.
Now even if "the idea" is already established, I still don't see "puts across it" as being correct. |
It's not, believe me. I think MO39's example showed that. |
Hehe, Mo's example cleared up a lot for me, unfortunately my last post was sitting there for about 5 minutes as I was peeling my delicious Mexican grown mango hehe. I still can't believe how cheap they are here! |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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He still puts across it even though everyone knows it to be a lie.
You must wait for the bus.
You must wait a moment for the bus.
(PS, not my arguement that "puts across it" is right in the context that we are talking about, only that in itself, it is not wrong, there are contexts in which it is correct. I also am not saying that "He still puts across it" is right)
Last edited by arioch36 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| obinhwan wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| obinhwan wrote: |
Hehe, thx guys, this both helps and hurts, the pain being the headache I feel coming on.
Now even if "the idea" is already established, I still don't see "puts across it" as being correct. |
It's not, believe me. I think MO39's example showed that. |
Hehe, Mo's example cleared up a lot for me, unfortunately my last post was sitting there for about 5 minutes as I was peeling my delicious Mexican grown mango hehe. I still can't believe how cheap they are here! |
I've never figured out how to eat one without getting into a complete mess! |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| obinhwan wrote: |
Hehe, thx guys, this both helps and hurts, the pain being the headache I feel coming on.
Now even if "the idea" is already established, I still don't see "puts across it" as being correct. |
As I just explained in my previous post, "puts across it" is incorrect. When using a pronoun object with separable verbs, it must go between the two parts of the verb phrase, never after the entire phrase:
He put it [the idea] across well - S�!
He put across it well. - No!
If has nothing to do with esoteric ideas about being already established or not - it's a purely mechanical rule, one which can be easily explained and practiced. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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MO39
| Quote: |
| If has nothing to do with esoteric ideas about being already established or not - it's a purely mechanical rule, one which can be easily explained and practiced. |
Not my purpose. I was simply stating perhaps the obvious, that for a non-native speaker, if "it" wasn't already established as being "the idea", my Chinese students at least would be totally lost as to the meaning of the sentence |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| arioch36 wrote: |
MO39
| Quote: |
| If has nothing to do with esoteric ideas about being already established or not - it's a purely mechanical rule, one which can be easily explained and practiced. |
Not my purpose. I was simply stating perhaps the obvious, that for a non-native speaker, if "it" wasn't already established as being "the idea", my Chinese students at least would be totally lost as to the meaning of the sentence |
No one, native or non-native speaker, would understand the sentence using "it" as the object unless it were put into context:
How would you put this idea across?
I would put it across by using examples. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| arioch36 wrote: |
(PS, not my arguement that "puts across it" is right in the context that we are talking about, only that in itself, it is not wrong, there are contexts in which it is correct. I also am not saying that "He still puts across it" is right) |
I'd be curious to see in what context you would consider "puts across it" to be correct English   |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| MO39 wrote: |
| arioch36 wrote: |
(PS, not my arguement that "puts across it" is right in the context that we are talking about, only that in itself, it is not wrong, there are contexts in which it is correct. I also am not saying that "He still puts across it" is right) |
I'd be curious to see in what context you would consider "puts across it" to be correct English |
To make a coffee table, he places an inverted "C"-shaped stone on the floor and puts across it a sheet of glass  ... but that's not using it as a phrasal verb, rather a verb and preposition. I just had to see whether I could do it.  |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Well done, Phil, though to my ears, "...puts a sheet of glass across it" sounds more natural, though your version is, of course, entirely correct. |
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