Job Discussion Forums

[SpedEd]

I blew off my old employer partly due to the fact that they were messing me around with the housing situation. They had me living in a tiny dorm style place with no fridge, microwave, washer, etc. The only so-called modern convenience was the air-con, but I suppose that was only installed to insure the FT would survive long enough to see the Fall semester. Oh, and they broke the contract, so I told them to fack themselves and went to Hong Kong to get a short term visa to replace the one they canceled in addtion to the FEC. I had all but 10 day to do this. Like I said elsewhere, they were a classy bunch.

Now I'm in Shanghai and this group has me sharing a place with another FT. The thing is I'm not the type to desire this scenario and this wasn't stated as such in the summer contract which I was told was identical to the full-time contract that I was eager to sign on with (the pay was very good). According to the other FT I spoke with, they are good for the pay but she vaguely described the owners as being misleading in some way. The FT may have been a newb, but she also may be on to something.

So, I want to go solo with the housing for the above reason and in the event of a fallout with the school's owners, I can't be booted to the street, which is typical style among Asian employers. Now, I need some clarification with regard to the realistic housing costs in Shanghai.

This evening, after speaking with a realtor, I was pleasantly surprised when I found that I could get a very reasonably sized place (studio-style) for 2000 yuan. But then I asked about the ubiquitous deposit. According to the realtor the landlords that they deal with ask for the intial deposit equal to the one month's rent, in addition to bimonthly deposits, which equates to half a dozen deposits over the course of a mandatory one- year contract. I balked at the agent and explained that this basically amounted to extortion in any modern country (except of course, China). In essence it's really like paying for one and one half rooms but getting only the one room. However, the realtor calmly assured me that I would get all of the money back upon seeing out the full contract term. Can some veterans explain if this is another attempt to roll a foreigner over here or if this is legitimately what people are paying nowadays to rent a place in Shanghai? Commonsense is telling me that paying this kind of deposit money is highly unrealistic and I'm being fed a long line.

[arioch36]

That might not be wrong, I got a little confused, and its past my bed time. Really should have a true Shanghai expat say. As I remember, norm was 2 months rent as deposit, and payment once every three months at the beginning of the three month period. Five years ago. What you are being asked doesn't sound too much diferent?

Anyways, don't listen to me,(so why am I posting?) Lobster and struelle are two that come to mind as having sufficient time in Shanghai

[Anda]

Um:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=English+teaching+accommodation+shanghai&btnG=Search


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=expat+shanghai&btnG=Google+Search

[Lobster]

The typical arrangement is one month's rent as damage deposit and then three month's rent up front (total 4 months' rent); meaning four annual payments. I have never failed to get my damage deposit back here. Note that you can't expect to get the full deposit back until all related utility bills (power, phone etc.) have been settled. The rent and terms you gave are quite reasonable. You should also consider that the agent will require the equivalent of a month's or half-month's rent as a finder's fee. This should be split between you and the apartment's owner. Negotiate and make sure the owner will agree to connecting phone, cable and internet services.

RED

[SpedEd]

[Lobster]

Not quite sure I follow your logic. I don't see the rental rates being over-inflated for a city of 13-17 million (twice that of Bangkok, where the wages are also much lower and there's twice the pollution). It's bigger than Seoul, or NYC or London. Look at the rents there! Supply and demand. You say you're making good money (so it must be 15k or more), so what's the big issue? Perhaps those are not your criteria for comparison.

Even Vancouver has much higher rent. Try to see what kind of place you'd get for $400/mo. in Vancouver. A dimly-lit basement suite if you're lucky. A typical apartment there, nothing fancy, will be $600-900 per month, and a typical ESL teacher makes about $3,000-3,500 pre-tax.

With housing purchase costs approaching 20k/square metre in Puxi, you're lucky to get a place for 2k a month that's not slum quality. Two months' rent in advance is less than is usually required here, so it's pretty good. Maybe if you were back home, which you are not, it would be extortion. Here it's SOP. It has been SOP for the more than 5 years I've lived here. My last place, in Pudong, had a river view, 15th floor with elevators and security system and was 2,600 per month. That's for a 2-bedroom place in a not-old, not-new building close to the subway.

Something about the tone of your writing tells me you're not happy here, so perhaps you should carefully reconsider your options before you commit to any long-term employment or rental contract. If you get more maladjusted and have to pull a runner, you'll lose money.

So, to recap:

2k a month is a good rate for Shanghai, but for 3k you could get a much nicer place. Weigh comfort and cost. Think about how much time you spend at home. Location will affect price.

Expect to pay 1 month's rent as damage deposit, which you'll get back if you don't trash the place and after all utility bills have been settled.

Expect to pay from 2-6 months' rent in advance.

Be sure that the owner agrees to connect phone, cable and internet. Some won't want to. Check to make sure the apartment isn't in a cell phone "dead zone".

Don't forget to register with the PSB as soon as you move. Take your passport, FEC and rental contract as well as your previous PSB form. Make sure you have your landlord's ID card number.

Try to ditch the "everyone's out to rip me off" line of thinking before you become paranoid.

RED

[jeffinflorida]

[Lobster]

Right, forgot to mention that sometimes it's the foreigners ripping off the Chinese. I find it interesting that some people here never have a bad experience while others seem to have one every second day. It's not "Chinese" reality, it's just your personal reality, and it reflects your attitudes and bahaviour.

RED

[jeffinflorida]

[flutterbayou]

The OP might be going through some major culture shock, so let's lay off on making anyone feel any worse.

In all my years in China, the worst thing(s) that happened were that I was robbed twice, once by a stranger and once by an unscrupulous landlord who cancelled my lease three days after I turned over 12,000 RMB towards deposit and three months's rent. No violence, just loss of cash and dignity.

Things can happen anywhere but, in general, I felt safer in China than I did living in New York or Chicago.

Can we open this thread a little wider to help the OP come up with different options to resolve his issues? From what I gather from previous posts, the OP skıpped out before finishing the last assignment and has been in line of tumbling dominos since then. When you look for fast solutions, they are rarely the best.

SE, have you signed a contract with the new employer in Shanghai yet, or can you shop around for a job? Have you checked in with the recruiters who post at Dave's? You've come too late for the job fairs but there is work out there, and if you can pick up a Shanghai entertainment newspaper, you will find lots of schools (legitimate ones) posting ads.

Try to take a day off for some solid rest, and then go get 'em.