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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| How can the male students at universities like KFUPM be kept from being peeping toms in the campus family housing? |
They can't. You'll have to 'go local': lock up your irresistibly gorgeous wife and make sure she's covered from head to toe every time you allow her to step outside the door.[/quote] |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Peeping toms |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
You can't really control other's behavior; only your own.
Sounds like irrational paranoia which will only serve to create the very situation that you fear...God only knows there is enough useless fear / paranoia generated about life in KSA already with out adding to it. |
So if a local knocks on the door and tells the owner of a house that he sees a woman in that house sitting by a window with her hair uncovered and that she should cover her hair, we should accept that the woman is at fault? When in Saudi, I would advice any woman to be aware of public space and private space. In the above example, the local Saudi's public space extended as far as his vision and into the private space. If one is living in university campus housing, please remind darling wife that their public space takes precedent over her private space. |
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Imdramayu
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 394
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: dw awareness |
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I'll remember to advise my knock-out dw that she needs to be culturally aware of the concepts of public and private space.
She does have an abaya from last time we came here so we'll have to drag it out again. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| So if a local knocks on the door and tells the owner of a house that he sees a woman in that house sitting by a window with her hair uncovered and that she should cover her hair, we should accept that the woman is at fault? |
If a Saudi man knocks on the door of a family's house, he usually stands to the side until the man of the residence comes out. This is polite behavior in KSA. If he sees an uncovered woman inside her residence, it would be considered his fault for peeping, not hers.
In the Eastern Province, it would be very unusual for a man to tell a woman (any woman, foreign or otherwise) to cover her hair. This is not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mia Xanthi wrote: |
If a Saudi man knocks on the door of a family's house, he usually stands to the side until the man of the residence comes out. This is polite behavior in KSA. |
Teta Mia, what about a Saudi woman knocking on the door of a family's house, do you think she will stand to the side until the man/woman of the residence comes out? Or it does not matter, becasue she is covered from head to toe, so she is well protected from the 'peeping' of a man!
| Quote: |
| In the Eastern Province, it would be very unusual for a man to tell a woman (any woman, foreign or otherwise) to cover her hair. |
Unless the man is an 'under-cover' muttawaa!  |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Mia Xanthi"]
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In the Eastern Province, it would be very unusual for a man to tell a woman (any woman, foreign or otherwise) to cover her hair. This is not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. |
I think everyone has a different experience of Saudi. I saw women in short Iranian tunics in Al Khobar, yet some kilometers to the north, I was politely told in Arabic, "This is the land of the holy mosques. Show respect and cover your hair." And yes, a Saudi gentleman did ask the gentleman of the house to tell me to cover my hair, when I was sitting in a room with an open window. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Family area on campus is out of bounds to students. The distinction between "public space" and "private space" is an important one. And not so simple. Are shopping malls "public space" ? If so why do security there routinely turn away single males (but not aging single "Khawajas" like me) ? |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes, everyone has a different experience but I would say that it's quite rare for an 'ordinary' (ie non-mutawwa) Saudi male to reprimand a foreign woman on her dress. In the several years I've been in Riyadh, I can recall only a very few occasions when men have - rather rudely - 'told' me to cover my face. I have always studiously ignored them, and suffered no consequences. The mutawwen are of course a different matter - and usually cannot be ignored without consequence - but even in Riyadh, they have much less of a presence than they used to have.
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| Are shopping malls "public space" ? If so why do security there routinely turn away single males (but not aging single "Khawajas" like me) ? |
Shopping 'malls' have a fairly unique status in Saudi society - they're about the only place where men and women can mingle relatively freely - other than hospitals, but I don't think they really count. I think the security men are tole to deny entry mainly to young unaccompanied Saudi men. I used to have a male colleague who was friends with a Saudi man. The Saudi said that one of the main benefits of their friendship was that he was usually allowed into shopping malls with his "Western" friend, while he would be routinely turned away when he was on his own or with other Saudi men. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Single men who look "ethnic" are also routinely turned away from such places ! |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| If so why do security there routinely turn away single males (but not aging single "Khawajas" like me) ? |
Very simple, Uncle Scotty! Because aging single "Khawaja" with white hair like you, your 'battery' for peeping is flat, and you will not make any troubles with women inside the mall.
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| Single men who look "ethnic" are also routinely turned away from such places ! |
But, uncle Scotty, those malls in the magic kingdom are full of shop assistants who are "ethnic" and single!! In addition, some of those shop assistants are single Saudis! And some of them are selling women 'under-wear' clothes to the Saudi women!!!!!! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I can assure 007 that my battery is in perfect condition. |
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Griff-James
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: A place full of 18 year olds and endless ale. Not not this time.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Gentlemen, I salute you!
Comedy genius.
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mistral
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Herat Afghanistan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Single Shoppers |
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| Single men who look "ethnic" are also routinely turned away from such places ! |
You rarely see Pakistanis wandering about the malls without the wife and half a dozen kids in tow. And he usually makes her wear a head-to-foot bin liner which she wouldn't be seen dead in back home! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| he usually makes her wear a head-to-foot bin liner which she wouldn't be seen dead in back home! |
I don't think it's neccessarily a case of the husband 'making' his wife dress in the manner you, um, describe. I know several Muslim women from the sub-continent - many of them single - who wear the full niquaab here, even though they don't cover their faces, or even hair, back in India or Pakistan. This is because they feel self-conscious uncovered and consider that they are 'supposed' to cover fully when in KSA. Also, remember that Asian women are far more likely to be hassled by the mutaween than 'white' women are. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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You do not often see people from the Sub-continent in the malls as customers. They are in KSA to SAVE not to spend !
Take a trip to the Rashid Mall or one of the newer ones and see for yourself. Customers are overwhelmingly Saudi with a sprinkling of "Westerners". |
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