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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| SnoopBot wrote: |
Seska,
Here is what I finished doing this last week to give you an idea on what might be expected from you regarding the more upscale institutions.
Monday: Professional presentations on,�Oil and gas exploration and oil reserves for CNOOC platforms.�
Tues: Oil and Gas pipeline team support project management for production to end user.
Weds: Oral English topics for SINOPEC and CNPC
Thursday: Technical English for Geophysics, oral, reading, writing, formulations.
Friday: Movie class Western History and culture
More than 20-hours teaching time. |
Let me tell you what I finished doing last week:
Looked for a job.
Stood outside in the summer heat.
Ended up with a job on day four.
Went to teach an immigrant how to deliver groceries while using the English language.
Ending each night by hitting the bed with the force of a falling anvil, due to the fact that I had to walk around the city each day, about 5 miles. Uphill, downhill, both ways... then wake up due to chronic insomnia and read up more on China.
I'd rather be bored and doing Oil presentations, just to get to those last three things that really do look interesting, than here, doing what I was doing.
Besides, I'm rather into several branches of Geophysics, out of curiousity, what were you dealing with? Just basic terminology? |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Seska wrote: |
| SnoopBot wrote: |
Seska,
Here is what I finished doing this last week to give you an idea on what might be expected from you regarding the more upscale institutions.
Monday: Professional presentations on,�Oil and gas exploration and oil reserves for CNOOC platforms.�
Tues: Oil and Gas pipeline team support project management for production to end user.
Weds: Oral English topics for SINOPEC and CNPC
Thursday: Technical English for Geophysics, oral, reading, writing, formulations.
Friday: Movie class Western History and culture
More than 20-hours teaching time. |
Let me tell you what I finished doing last week:
Looked for a job.
Stood outside in the summer heat.
Ended up with a job on day four.
Went to teach an immigrant how to deliver groceries while using the English language.
Ending each night by hitting the bed with the force of a falling anvil, due to the fact that I had to walk around the city each day, about 5 miles. Uphill, downhill, both ways... then wake up due to chronic insomnia and read up more on China.
I'd rather be bored and doing Oil presentations, just to get to those last three things that really do look interesting, than here, doing what I was doing.
Besides, I'm rather into several branches of Geophysics, out of curiousity, what were you dealing with? Just basic terminology? |
I am using this book right now, "Practical English for Petroleum Geophysical Exploration." ISBN 7-5636-1706-X.
Some of the terms we address the usual pronunciation issues, however the main purpose is to select topics for technical expert presentations. They then give expert advice and presentations based from select topics in the book. This hones their technical skills needed for Geology Exploration with Foreign Joint Ventures or work abroad.
Most of the students work for a big oil company and have 10-years company experience. Average age is +35 years with at least a master's degree a few are PhD experts.
We are the part of the CEU department here.
It could be worse; you could have stood in +100 F heat, with an M4 carbine in some crap-hole in a place like Iraq. Most of them will return to the same job prospects you observe right now in the USA. I will also note education level does not matter, especially if you are rated above 70% VA service connected. You are often considered "unemployable" by society. The existing system and situation is NOT fair. Hopefully, some day it will change. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| You can forget teaching in Korea, as you are required to have a degree....and they enforce that rule. If you are that desperate to come to China some private mill in a backward province will accept you. In your situation I would recommend New Times. They can find a job for the backpacker/unqualified type......They will probably screw you, but you might get lucky. |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: HangZhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Hey Seska,
That was a pretty harsh set of comments you made a couple of pages back!
I think that mindset of yours that generated that reaction could get you in trouble quickly in China. I see you as a strong candidate for culture shock. You remind me of someone who I work with for a month 2 years ago. She high tailed it out of that school when things weren't running as expected and when she had to cooperate on a program with others. She then went to another school in another province and had more "problems" there and left China not too long after, her "expectations" having been roundly challenged.
I know you've said that you're ready to face challenges, and good for you. But, you may have to cooperate with others. I hope you give them some slack at that time.
If you've been generally following this board then you should be able to see that although there is disagreement and even antagonism in some posts, generally people are trying to be helpful and give advice from their perspective, and based on their experiences, or the experiences of those they know.
How you use that advice is up to you.
Many foreign teachers here in China have been ripped off (swindled out money), tricked into taking on work commitments they hadn't expected, passport withheld by school officers (in case you think of trying to make a getaway...), threatened with visa cancellation and deportation, etc. So, it's wise to pay heed to those messages. Forewarned is fore-armed.
On the money front, most people here do not use mummy and daddy's US$20K to get to China... It's getting ore difficult for young (and non-degreed and non-native speaker) persons to find work in China. They've gotten most of us to exit the country on Olympic security pretexts to reapply for visas... I wonder how those underqualified types will go when they reapply...?
Anyway, in case things go wrong, you should have at least a spare US$1500-2000 that you don't touch after settling in to your first (or subsequent) job. You'll need it if you have to make a quick getaway to another job. In that case it's best to get one in another province. Around Olympic time such matters may be complicated... but, fingers crossed that they go back to normal afterwards.
Isn't "luck out" a negative term, equal to "fail"? In Australia that's how we use it. We say "get/got lucky" to mean "succeed".
"In otherwards..." --> "In other words..." (?)
Anyway... Good luck!
LFA |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: HangZhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| letchluther wrote: |
| China will soon have 30 nuclear submarines .. things are going to be very interesting in the coming decade. |
Hmmm, possibly. But, aren't they almost as noisy as our (otherwise first class) Aussie ones?
The Chinese have been trying to... ahhh... 'secretly borrow' quiet submarine technology from the Americans recently, I think...
LFA |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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luck out means to get lucky ... not sure why
He really lucked out with that school ... that would be a good thing |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Basically. We'll see how it goes after the olympics, I surely won't be diving right in. I'll be studying the situation over time. I do plan on bringing money with me, and currently plan to try to save about $2300 by the end of a year and 3 months.
As for culture shock, I'll be fine. I'm adaptable. I've had to experience culture shock PLENTY of times. I can take a huge hit if I need to.
Thanks for the correction on "In other words" I was half asleep when writing that post and was confused between foreward, afterward, et cetera. I knew what it was, but sometimes when I've only slept for 3 hours in two days...
We'll see how it goes after the olypmics, if non-degrees can't go, they can't go. My prediction is thus:
Alot of the English speakers who go to Beijing/China will see all of those teaching jobs. A huge percentage of those who can make the financial investment shall start trying to snatch those jobs up. The result will be that for the first year to year and a half, you're going to be plagued by backpackers who will most likely lower wages even more. When their contracts start to end, there will be a higher demand for teachers/victims.
The wages offered will be alot lower, and they may become desperate enough to allow you to negotiate back up to the wages as they are now. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Seska wrote: |
Basically. We'll see how it goes after the olympics, I surely won't be diving right in. I'll be studying the situation over time. I do plan on bringing money with me, and currently plan to try to save about $2300 by the end of a year and 3 months.
As for culture shock, I'll be fine. I'm adaptable. I've had to experience culture shock PLENTY of times. I can take a huge hit if I need to.
Thanks for the correction on "In other words" I was half asleep when writing that post and was confused between foreward, afterward, et cetera. I knew what it was, but sometimes when I've only slept for 3 hours in two days...
We'll see how it goes after the olypmics, if non-degrees can't go, they can't go. My prediction is thus:
Alot of the English speakers who go to Beijing/China will see all of those teaching jobs. A huge percentage of those who can make the financial investment shall start trying to snatch those jobs up. The result will be that for the first year to year and a half, you're going to be plagued by backpackers who will most likely lower wages even more. When their contracts start to end, there will be a higher demand for teachers/victims.
The wages offered will be alot lower, and they may become desperate enough to allow you to negotiate back up to the wages as they are now. |
The problem with this is the fact this might not happen in Beijing. The laws are usually strictly enforced in the Beijing area compared to other parts of China. The control over policy is much stricter since the central government is located here.
To get employment under a valid Z-visa, requirements dictate a 4-year degree, with 2-years experience or some TEFL cert. In the past they seemed to be able to get around these requirements. They have been cracking down due to the problems with teacher/activist.
Now, they do a little more screening to insure members of the banned media and activist (Free Tibet , take your pick of which groups) do not get into China to organize or create some type of incidents.
Possibly after the Olympics they will go back to the old style of using Guanxi to get Z-visa's for those that do not meet the working visa requirements.
What some have done is used a fake degree (or the school did it for them) or they taught under another visa (not a Z).
This is where the dangers come to play, you are at the mercy of the school you work for if you do not have the proper documents. They know this and use this as a leverage tool often against you.
Stay away from Beijing, if you really want to teach here in China pick a more isolated area that really needs a teacher. This might be more rewarding in experience for you anyway.
Generally, these places also will try their best to keep a good teachers regardless of paper-quals and will pull-strings to keep you.
Once your foot is in the door you can use this experience to move on to better areas or find the jobs that don't require a degree. Also NOW you have experience too. Having some type of experience and good letters of reference will really help.
Oral English teaching, especially with children often does not require the MA Ed TESOL degree often listed as a desired requirement. Oral English in regards to younger children requires special skills that are more part of a whole-set personality and not always taught in the classroom.
These attributes are patience, humor, dedication and real desire to make a difference in their future lives.
You do have an advantage here, you know what it is like to be poor and hopefully developed Empathy towards the students you will end up teaching. (Most of them only know poverty too)
I wouldn't expect a Village raised Harvard PhD in ED to hold much empathy towards 3-world children who only own one a notebook and a pencil.
I think this would be a really good experience for you, just keep a good attitude. Use past failures and lessons of your life to guide the children you teach to a possible better future in their lives.
That satisfaction can never be taken away from you the rest of your life.
My 2cents worth... |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| SnoopBot wrote: |
| Seska wrote: |
Basically. We'll see how it goes after the olympics, I surely won't be diving right in. I'll be studying the situation over time. I do plan on bringing money with me, and currently plan to try to save about $2300 by the end of a year and 3 months.
As for culture shock, I'll be fine. I'm adaptable. I've had to experience culture shock PLENTY of times. I can take a huge hit if I need to.
Thanks for the correction on "In other words" I was half asleep when writing that post and was confused between foreward, afterward, et cetera. I knew what it was, but sometimes when I've only slept for 3 hours in two days...
We'll see how it goes after the olypmics, if non-degrees can't go, they can't go. My prediction is thus:
Alot of the English speakers who go to Beijing/China will see all of those teaching jobs. A huge percentage of those who can make the financial investment shall start trying to snatch those jobs up. The result will be that for the first year to year and a half, you're going to be plagued by backpackers who will most likely lower wages even more. When their contracts start to end, there will be a higher demand for teachers/victims.
The wages offered will be alot lower, and they may become desperate enough to allow you to negotiate back up to the wages as they are now. |
The problem with this is the fact this might not happen in Beijing. The laws are usually strictly enforced in the Beijing area compared to other parts of China. The control over policy is much stricter since the central government is located here.
To get employment under a valid Z-visa, requirements dictate a 4-year degree, with 2-years experience or some TEFL cert. In the past they seemed to be able to get around these requirements. They have been cracking down due to the problems with teacher/activist.
Now, they do a little more screening to insure members of the banned media and activist (Free Tibet , take your pick of which groups) do not get into China to organize or create some type of incidents.
Possibly after the Olympics they will go back to the old style of using Guanxi to get Z-visa's for those that do not meet the working visa requirements.
What some have done is used a fake degree (or the school did it for them) or they taught under another visa (not a Z).
This is where the dangers come to play, you are at the mercy of the school you work for if you do not have the proper documents. They know this and use this as a leverage tool often against you.
Stay away from Beijing, if you really want to teach here in China pick a more isolated area that really needs a teacher. This might be more rewarding in experience for you anyway.
Generally, these places also will try their best to keep a good teachers regardless of paper-quals and will pull-strings to keep you.
Once your foot is in the door you can use this experience to move on to better areas or find the jobs that don't require a degree. Also NOW you have experience too. Having some type of experience and good letters of reference will really help.
Oral English teaching, especially with children often does not require the MA Ed TESOL degree often listed as a desired requirement. Oral English in regards to younger children requires special skills that are more part of a whole-set personality and not always taught in the classroom.
These attributes are patience, humor, dedication and real desire to make a difference in their future lives.
You do have an advantage here, you know what it is like to be poor and hopefully developed Empathy towards the students you will end up teaching. (Most of them only know poverty too)
I wouldn't expect a Village raised Harvard PhD in ED to hold much empathy towards 3-world children who only own one a notebook and a pencil.
I think this would be a really good experience for you, just keep a good attitude. Use past failures and lessons of your life to guide the children you teach to a possible better future in their lives.
That satisfaction can never be taken away from you the rest of your life.
My 2cents worth... |
Thank you, Snoop. Yes, I agree, not Beijing, or Shanghai. I kind of want to be somewhere small. But one thing I'd really love to do is see Tianjin before I die (even if it is paved over). Even if I have to die getting there. I don't intend to teach there, I just... want to see where my idol, Huo Yuanjia lived.
There's alot about China, even as it is, that I love. I want to experience it. Think about it this way... it's all the things I love and want to experience wrapped up into one. Teaching, and, well... China.
This is the country that wrote Journey to the West, a book I grew up on. They invented most of the things that we, today, take for granted.
It doesn't matter how bad it's become, or how bad it's going to be. I want to live there and experience it, for good or ill.
I also agree on your sentiments with students. I would love that. It'd be a rewarding experience, and I have always believed that teaching was never about the pay, but being able to reach the pinnacle of learning, and imparting life experience as well as knowledge. A teacher should also try to be a mentor and rolemodel. Which is why it kind of upsets me when I hear about some of these teachers going out and getting drunk, showing up with hangovers, etc. Sure it's good to unwind, but I've even heard of some showing up to teach while plastered.
I just wouldn't want to do that if I taught. It's wrong to the kids, and wrong to yourself.
Learn to teach, teach to learn.
I may get a tattoo that says "Teach or Die" just for this trip. I haven't decided yet. lol. |
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danielb
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Seska wrote:
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I am a dirt poor, though highly self-educated person. It is not through life mismanagement, or any other poor life choices, though being born to a poor family, in a place where the educational system was severely lacking. English is my first language, I enjoy reading, I enjoy writing. I have taught English for three years to exchange students and immigrants through ads in the paper. (I've never claimed to have a degree, and I was always paid in cash per lesson. I've never gouged or cheated. I simply... like to teach.)
I have a desire to teach, but I've never had the money to get a degree. I've never had the money to get a GED either. (Yes, $25 is too much for me.)
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Then later, about a disabled friend wrote:
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| She has about the same qualifications I do, except she has a TESOL. (I do not.) |
And then later, about the same disabled friend wrote:
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| She's got way more qualifications than me to do it though, so she'll probably do it alot better. (She has a Master's in Arts & Literature). |
I'm confused. |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: Um |
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| I picked it on the first post! Anyway it kills time and is an interesting enough thread. If one is prepared to travel and has enough of an education to write well and is single to boot then one can still earn a dollar. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Anyway it kills time |
The exciting ex-pat lifestyle of the FT, once again, rears its ugly head!!!!! |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Let's see if we can add more to the confusion: He can't afford the (so he said) $25 to get a GED but he can use the $200 cash on hand to come to China. Wait, he's changed his mind about that and will now save $2300 during the next year and then come to China with his disabled friend who has the same qualifications as he does (no GED, no college degree, but has a TESOL certificate . . . wait! Now she has a Masters degree in Arts and Literature!). Will our imaginary EFL teacher get his GED before he comes to China or won't he? Will his imaginary disabled friend pull herself up by the bootstraps and make the journey or will her bipolar symptoms prevent her from doing so (I guess it will depend on her mood at the time, yes?)? It will be interesting to see which former Dave's member this is if he/she will eventually reveal themselves. But we've all been eager to give advice to our imaginary friend though, haven't we? |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Yes. Yes. Since I don't know the total inner workings of my friend's mind, nor her life experience and education beyond a TESOL until I ask her... I must be lying.
That's funny. I guess you don't continue discussions over a couple days time where you are? Then again, your lampooning of my situation does indeed seem to suggest you have anti-social and sociopathic tendancies.
I guess it's all that time being trapped in China suffering.
MOD EDIT
Like I said, if you don't believe me, I will show you the exact amount of money I have in my bank account.
Unfortunately, this being the best source of knowledge I've found, it means that I'll have to indure a bunch of asses making fun of my situation, and try to point out invisible holes in a true story... Just to get a couple answers from people who actually seem to know wtf they're doing over there.
I found out she was an MA a bit before you did, so sue me. Though the cost of long-distance litigation is surely a pain in your low-paid behinds from where you are. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I vote this guy is a troll  Ignore his posts and he will eventually go away. |
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