|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: What should I expect from the students? |
 |
|
What should I expect from the students in behavior and English language ability?
I will teach men at a state university that has colleges in the following areas:
- Law
- Computer Engineering and Information Technology
- Business Administration
- Education and Human Development
As background most of my teaching experience comes from teaching middle school students in Korea as well as English classes for the Korean teachers and staff.
Regards |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
james van cleave
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 59
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You should expect grave disappointment and devastating frustration for starters.
I generally suggest people new to KSA should acquire outside interests. Why not develop a drinking problem as so many of us have chosen to do? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james van cleave wrote: |
You should expect grave disappointment and devastating frustration for starters.
I generally suggest people new to KSA should acquire outside interests. Why not develop a drinking problem as so many of us have chosen to do? |
Although james van cleave's comment is somewhat of an exaggerated response to the OP's question...it does serve as a warning not to have high expectations...in all honesty you are likely to encounter the full range of abilities.
In my opinion, most college Saudi student's behavior is generally regarded as polite, along with the usual types of behavior such as arrogance, lateness, laziness, disorganized, short attention span. However, you also get students who are eager, studious, attentive, humble, respectful, on time, organized.
Of course alot of it will depend upon how 'you are' with the students. If you over react to various minor student misconduct and generally act like a jerk all the time in the classroom, you can bet you will get that attitude reflected back at you. However, if you are 'genuine and real' with a sense of humor, you are more likely to have a better time in relating with them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear cmp45,
Well said (or rather written) and, in my opinion, completely accurate.
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Of course alot of it will depend upon how 'you are' with the students. If you over react to various minor student misconduct and generally act like a jerk all the time in the classroom, you can bet you will get that attitude reflected back at you. However, if you are 'genuine and real' with a sense of humor, you are more likely to have a better time in relating with them. |
Cmp 45 has stated this beautifully. You get what you give eventually. When you first start teaching, show the students patience, respect, and above all, a good sense of humor -- even if they don't seem to deserve it at the time. What you will get (after a few weeks, when things settle down) is a group of students who, with gentle prodding, will do what you ask out of respect for you. A strong authoritarian approach will not work with these students. Use the carrot much more often than the stick.
This being said, do not expect high academic standards across the board. If you are the type who needs high-functioning students in order to feel rewarded in your work, you will experience a great deal of frustration. On the other hand, if you are the type who gets a sense of fulfillment from taking low-functioning students and moving them into the realm of possibility in a university setting, you will most certainly enjoy your work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
balqis
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 373
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
you may also find Arabs truly worth your tears, and most likely you will shed tears there;
what's more you may like them; Arab students can be very likeable and your experience with Arabs fascinating;
in the drudge and toil of life in Arabia your students may be your the only solace and comfort; other than that you may have desert all over...
go as tabula rasa and then find out for yourself
balqis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mistral
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Herat Afghanistan
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: What should I expect from Saudi students? |
|
|
| Quote: |
| ... in behavior and English language ability? |
Don't expect to rise to the peak of your teaching career here in paradise.
Remember that plate spinning act at the circus you used to love as a kid? The one with a pitiful looking clown rushing round, sweating buckets, just to keep those plates spinning. Well that's your average Saudi classroom. The plates are the dozing specimens in front of you. You're the clown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtFImsMIl1U
... as for the pretty fairy. Most schools prefer their staff to dress a little more conservatively. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark100
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| james van cleave wrote: |
You should expect grave disappointment and devastating frustration for starters.
I generally suggest people new to KSA should acquire outside interests. Why not develop a drinking problem as so many of us have chosen to do? |
Very funny but unfortunately very close to the mark.
It is the outside interests that will sustain you.
Take it as an opportunity to improve yourself.
Do a distance course, go to the gym and get fit or play some sports, eat well and yes you will need to drink occasionally or most of did anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| balqis wrote: |
you may also find Arabs truly worth your tears, and most likely you will shed tears there;
what's more you may like them; Arab students can be very likeable and your experience with Arabs fascinating;
in the drudge and toil of life in Arabia your students may be your the only solace and comfort; other than that you may have desert all over...
go as tabula rasa and then find out for yourself
balqis |
A very poetic sentiment! I tend to agree...tears of frustration or tears of accomplishment~ either way...or a combination of both?
The time spent with the students in the classroom will be, for the most part, what makes or breaks your experience in KSA.
Restating Mia's comment...a strict authoritarian approach in the classroom is doomed to failure and frustration; it just does not work, anywhere ...you really do need to cultivate patience and respect; do not 'sweat' the small stuff.
Of course you will need to have some way to fill the time when you are not working...which seems, from what I have read on this board; run the whole gamit from drowning one's self in alcohol and other vices to hermit like seclusion in order to save the Riyals...or better ... creating an enjoyable home sanctuary, cultivating friendships and hobbies most importantly... living in the present moment helps to alleviate boredom and anxiety brought on by dwelling too much in the past or anticipation of the future!
I have no problem living in KSA. I like my job and quite enjoy my home life. Everyone has their own way of handling life here...some take a grim negative view and some with an over the top positive view (which may be the truly insane ones LOL)...but most will generally land somewhere in between. ,...like me   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| a group of students who, with gentle prodding, will do what you ask out of respect for you. |
This is 100% true. If you adopt a very authoritarian attitude, students probably will comply out of fear, but they will not work to their full potential, and your classroom probably wont' be a very pleasant place to be. As Mia has said, when students come to genuinely like and respect you, they will do theri very best - and encourage other students to do the same - for no other reason than that they do not want to disappoint or upset you. On several occasions, after a class in which some students misbehaved , individual girls have approached me to apologise on behalf of the other students. This may be one way in which the students' typical "immaturity" is atually a good thing: they get genuinely upset when they see a respected teacher is unhappy with them, and will do their best to remedy the situation.
That said, I most definately do not advocate a 'laissez faire' attitude in class. Students may 'like' teachers who let them walk all over them, but they do not respect them and will not produce their best work for them. No different from students anywhere else in the world, I suppose.
| Quote: |
| you really do need to cultivate patience and respect; do not 'sweat' the small stuff. |
Again, absolutely true. If you're going to get upset over every student who forgets to bring their book to class or asks to go to the bathroom five minutes after class started, you are going to be banging your head against a wall every minute of the day. For the most part - to put it mildly - Saudi students do not excel in study skills or organisational capacity. Once you learn to accept this, however, you may find that your students' qualities of personal charm, humour and respect more than outweigh their tendency to arrive at class without pen and paper (but somehow with their mobile phones!). That's been my experience, anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
If you adopt a very authoritarian attitude, students probably will comply out of fear, but they will not work to their full potential, and your classroom probably wont' be a very pleasant place to be. As Mia has said, when students come to genuinely like and respect you, they will do their very best - and encourage other students to do the same - for no other reason than that they do not want to disappoint or upset you. On several occasions, after a class in which some students misbehaved , individual girls have approached me to apologise on behalf of the other students. This may be one way in which the students' typical "immaturity" is atually a good thing: they get genuinely upset when they see a respected teacher is unhappy with them, and will do their best to remedy the situation.
That said, I most definately do not advocate a 'laissez faire' attitude in class. Students may 'like' teachers who let them walk all over them, but they do not respect them and will not produce their best work for them. No different from students anywhere else in the world, I suppose.
If you're going to get upset over every student who forgets to bring their book to class or asks to go to the bathroom five minutes after class started, you are going to be banging your head against a wall every minute of the day. For the most part - to put it mildly - Saudi students do not excel in study skills or organisational capacity. Once you learn to accept this, however, you may find that your students' qualities of personal charm, humour and respect more than outweigh their tendency to arrive at class without pen and paper (but somehow with their mobile phones!). That's been my experience, anyway. |
Cleo has 'hit the nail on the head'! This applies equally to the male students as well, in my experience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
If the students perceıve you as someone who ıs actually tryıng to teach them something you should be okay.
If they lıke you they wıll be easy to work wıth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sincere thanks for the thoughtful replies. As long as I can expect a basic level of politeness while we are getting to know each other I have no problem working to earn the students respect (it sounds like I will be given a fair chance to earn respect and that is all I can ask for).
Regards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| passport220 wrote: |
| As long as I can expect a basic level of politeness while we are getting to know each other |
hello hello
if i were you, i would embark on a journey inwards and ponder over the meaning of 'basic level of politeness' and to what extent i can expect what i think 'basic level' to be 'basic level' in a completely different culture
i think what can make people really frustrated in the ksa is that they have to realize that these 'basic levels' are culturally determined and far from universal, and what is basic here may be totally marginal or just simply not part of the picture somewhere else
i mean, once you have realized it, its gonna get better, but getting there can be a hard (or even nightmarish) journey to some, and quite a few ppl will never make it. these latter are the ones who end up slamming doors and going on tantrums and saying that 'saudis are stupid' etc
imho |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james van cleave
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 59
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Follow the path of universal politeness?
I have a few suggestions;
1.) Students should not remind the instructor on a weekly-or indeed , daily basis- that he is destined to hell.
2.) Students should not sleep, chant, throw sharp objects or pretend they are donkeys during appointed classroom hours.
3.) Students should not imply that said instructor's spouse is at home having carnal relations with the family pet.
Before VS or some other noble soul gets a hold of this posting...all of the above (and more) have happened to me on a more or less routine basis in the ME.
Have fun in KSA, my friend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
