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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there's my example. I've taught in Indonesia and in the Middle East. In both places I had Black colleagues. Based on what I saw and on what those colleagues confided, I'd have to say that Blacks would be far less likely to encounter racism/prejudice/discrimination in Indonesia than is, say, Saudi Arabia.
Regards,
John |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| What about white people, such as me? |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Kootvela,
Well, the OP was asking about "mixed-race." I don't think whites (such as you and I) get to experience much racism directed towards us in too many places - although I suppose that in some African countries, whites might experience racism (Zimbabwe, perhaps) - though in none of the ones I've visited (Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Morocco, Algeria) did I ever experience any.
Whites from the USA could very well have negative experiences these days, as the administration in office has, over the last 7 1/2 years seemingly done its best to ensure that Americans are disliked by many other nationalities and loathed by some.
As an aside, I once did experience racism - in the USA, when I attended Florida A&M, a school whose student and staff population is about 98% Black. My Black English Literature teacher gave me a failing grade on a paper I had written about "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison. When I asked him why he'd failed me, he said that no white person could ever understand or interpret the writings of a black person. I replied that, in that case, I felt sorry for him. When he demanded to know why I felt that way, I told him it was because if he was right, then he would never be able to understand the writings of any white person or, for that matter, any woman writer, whether she was white or black.
To his credit, he adjusted the grade to a "B" (but it should have been an "A.")
Regards,
John |
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MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know if this could be considered racism, but in Mexico (and no doubt elsewhere in Latin America), white women are considered a real "catch" by many men and are often pursued (nicely and not so nicely) for their skin color rather than for their other qualities. It's very prestigious to have a white girlfriend by your side, and even better if she's a blonde! |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| I was turned down for a job in UK because of my accent (we did a phone interview). I find it quite racist as well because the UK accent isn't the most important thing in the world, esp. with all this 'communicative' crutch method around. |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Kootvela,
Sorry to hear that. However, I don't think that would fall into the category of "racial prejudice." Ethnic prejudice, maybe, or (I'm making up a new concept here) dialectical prejudice.
But I think racial prejudice is based on the (to my mind mistaken) notion that the human race is divided into "Caucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoid" populations (although historically, the number of such "races" has varied between three and thirty.)
Regards,
John |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I was turned down for a job in UK because of my accent (we did a phone interview). |
Was it a teaching job? |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| I was turned down for a job in UK because of my accent (we did a phone interview). |
Was it a teaching job? |
Yes, a summer camp. Though I understand that there they want native speakers, but a) why not state that in advertisement b) why are we bragging about the communicative method so much? Isn't being understood a fact of a communicative teaching rather than parroting RP? Plus, there are so many dialects and accents apart from RP that most people face every day.
The next day after the interview I was complimented by a native speaker for 'perfect English' when I was interpreting for him.
Go figure  |
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MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kootvela wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I was turned down for a job in UK because of my accent (we did a phone interview). |
Was it a teaching job? |
Yes, a summer camp. Though I understand that there they want native speakers, but a) why not state that in advertisement b) why are we bragging about the communicative method so much? Isn't being understood a fact of a communicative teaching rather than parroting RP? Plus, there are so many dialects and accents apart from RP that most people face every day.
The next day after the interview I was complimented by a native speaker for 'perfect English' when I was interpreting for him.
Go figure  |
Were they looking for native English speakers, or, more precisely, British-English speakers? In that case, I (a native speaker of American English) would have been rejected too! |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| No, the position was open to anybody just EU nationals were preferred (visa stuff, I guess). |
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MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kootvela wrote: |
| No, the position was open to anybody just EU nationals were preferred (visa stuff, I guess). |
That's their loss then because I'm sure you would have been a great addition to their staff!
It is odd that the job ad didn't mention that they wanted native speakers. Kind of reminds me of my experiences in Spain last year, where I was working on a tourist visa. I'd arranged an interview with one well-known school, but before leaving for the interview, I called to let them know that I didn't have an EU passport. The response was that they weren't interested in meeting me after all, and rudely hung up on me! Why didn't they ask me this question when I made the appointment in the first place?!  |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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The fact they didn't mention it was why I replied to their ad in the first place.
I think even with the red tape thing the schools that ask for EU nationals and native speakers will soon a) have to pay a LOT to their staff for keeping them b) bankrupt unless thei hire non-native speakers because I can hardly imagine the UK moving to Europe for teaching purposes! |
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guty

Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think even with the red tape thing the schools that ask for EU nationals and native speakers will soon a) have to pay a LOT to their staff for keeping them |
Nice sentiments, but compare that statement with William Wallace's thread on salary levels going down over the last decades, and an interesting one on the UK board about the lowest paid job, less than minimum wage.
It will always be an employer's market for UK summer schools, don't take it personally, you were too good for them,! Likely to ask for better standards than they wanted to provide. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Well, the OP was asking about "mixed-race." I don't think whites (such as you and I) get to experience much racism directed towards us in too many places - although I suppose that in some African countries, whites might experience racism (Zimbabwe, perhaps) - though in none of the ones I've visited (Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Morocco, Algeria) did I ever experience any. |
Well in Zimbabwe they took land from white farmers. So there is some racism in Zimbabwe. In Korea a white person would face some racism. It would almost be impossible for a foreigner to become a professor with equal pay in Korea. I know some foreign professors who can even speak Korean. One has been living in Korea since the 1970's. He came as a Peace Corps volunteer. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yes, a summer camp. Though I understand that there they want native speakers, but a) why not state that in advertisement b) why are we bragging about the communicative method so much? Isn't being understood a fact of a communicative teaching rather than parroting RP? Plus, there are so many dialects and accents apart from RP that most people face every day. |
Kootvela, don't complain. I have been turned down for jobs because my accent was not American enough and I am American
My accent has change since living abroad which I believe happens to some people. It might also be due to the lack of contact I usually have with other Americans in Korea and Taiwan. |
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