Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Algerian and Moroccan teachers. How are they viewed?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Algerian and Moroccan teachers. How are they viewed? Reply with quote

Several Algerian and Moroccan teachers, who teach Math and Science in Canada, have expressed an interest in working in the Gulf countries. I have been asked to guide them in their plan. They tend to be francophones, but some of them also speak adequate English, and certainly enough to teach the technical subjects, which they tend to excel in.

Just wondering, how are Algerians and Moroccans viewed in general terms by people in the Gulf countries? I know that from a cultural standpoint, there are many differences. Also, even their varieties of spoken Arabic differ a lot.

Do people in the Middle Eastern countries view the Algerians and Moroccans very differently from, for example, the Lebanese?

Thank you.

Ghost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
miski



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hookers out to get Gulf husbands at any cost.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Algerian and Moroccan teachers. How are they viewed? Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
Several Algerian and Moroccan teachers, who teach Math and Science in Canada, have expressed an interest in working in the Gulf countries. I have been asked to guide them in their plan. They tend to be francophones, but some of them also speak adequate English, and certainly enough to teach the technical subjects, which they tend to excel in.
ust wondering, how are Algerians and Moroccans viewed in general terms by people in the Gulf countries? I know that from a cultural standpoint, there are many differences. Also, even their varieties of spoken Arabic differ a lot.

Well, there are plenty of Algerians, Tunisians, and Morocans teachers in the Gulf universities, from UAE university to KFUPM university, and also are present in different colleges and private comparnies, and they teach all types of subjects, from Maths, computer Sciences to Petroleum engineering.

Quote:
Do people in the Middle Eastern countries view the Algerians and Moroccans very differently from, for example, the Lebanese?

Yes. They are respected more than the Egyptians and Lebanese.
BTW, most of the Algerians working in the Gulf are in universities, and they come from different countries in Europe, Canada, and USA.
And they speak very well classical Arabic in addition to English and French.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes. They are respected more than the Egyptians and Lebanese.
BTW, most of the Algerians working in the Gulf are in universities, and they come from different countries in Europe, Canada, and USA.
And they speak very well classical Arabic in addition to English and French.


This is interesting, as I had thought that the Lebanese were considered the most sophisticated transplants in the region, by virtue of their culture, exposure to the west, bi cultural culture, phoenician origins (for some) and general happy dispositions (pardon the generalization).

Also, the Lebanese educational system, with the focus on good schooling in both English and French, has produced a nation with many able to converse in several languages. Many religious orders have schools in Lebanon, and their results are good. Certainly, Lebanese kids who have moved to Canada, report that the general educational levels are higher in Lebanon, esp. for the maths and science areas. Those are, of course, private schools, which many of the Christian Maronite Lebanese use.

Certainly, in Montreal, many Lebanese consider themselves to be a class above other immigrants, including those from the maghreb.

The Lebanese have that ability to set up shop anywhere they go, and make a success. Certainly in Montreal, the Lebanese businesses are fixtures, and sadly, the same cannot be said for the businesses set up by people from the Maghreb.

It is often said that the Maghreb people are less successful in business (compared with Lebanese) because they are less able to work as a team and to cooperate.



Ghost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
It is often said that the Maghreb people are less successful in business (compared with Lebanese) because they are less able to work as a team and to cooperate.

ghost, I think you are mixing educational system with business! The Maghreb people are very successful in the educational sector in the Gulf region as well in Europe, USA, and Canada.
In addition, team work and cooperation have nothing to do with race, ethnicity, religion, or eye colors. Team work and cooperation are personal and profesional characteristics which can be achieved regardless of race or ethnicty!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
bi cultural culture,


????

Quote:
phoenician origins (for some)


LOL!!! How does one ascertain the 'phoenician' origins of some Lebanese, but not others? You remind me of certain of our other posters who believed that Iranians are "aryans".

Seems like ghost never met a lebanonese myth he did not uncritically swallow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Cleo on this, ghost. I think we have been exposed to different stereotypes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: From the horses' mouth Reply with quote

The Lebanese themselves make a distinction between those who are Phoenicians and those who have other origins, including arabs.

In fact, Lebanese of Phoenician origin often claim that they are not in fact 'arabs' and the physical characteristics of these people often bear substance to that, although there are many other variables which come into play.

You have a similar situation in Algeria, where many Berbers claim autonomy.

Ghost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You have a similar situation in Algeria, where many Berbers claim autonomy.


Sorry, but the situation is not at similar at all. The Berbers in Algeria and elsewhere in North Africa are a distinct ethnic group, with an identifiable language and culture. The same is not true for the "Phoenicians" who are a group who inhabited parts of what is now Lebanon (and Syria) thousands of years ago. For contemporary Lebanese (or some of them) to claim descent from the Phoenicians is a bit like modern Egyptians claiming direct descent from the Pharaohs, or, as I've said, like Iranians saying that they are "Aryans". In other words, it's a bit of nonsensical myth-making which, I see, you have fallen for hook, line and sinker too.


Quote:
the physical characteristics of these people often bear substance to that, although there are many other variables which come into play.


Could you provide some evidence of this intriguing claim? Perhaps a photo of a Lebanese bearing the 'physical characteristics' of the "Phoenicians" side by side with a common and garden Arab? And what are these 'other variables" you speak of? A "Phoenician" language, perhaps?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mia Xanthi



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only Lebanese that I have ever heard claim themselves to be of "Phoeneican" origin were Lebanese Christians who (in my humble opinion) were trying to distinguish themselves as much as possible from Arab Muslim Lebanese. Like Cleopatra, I view this as a myth that some use to claim that they are somehow racially superior to others. I find it somewhat offensive.

As for the original topic of this thread, I have had a number of Maghrebi colleagues, and I did not find them to be treated differently from any other Arab expat group in KSA. If anything, they may have been treated a little better because the ones who teach in universities in KSA usually have excellent qualifications and have spent considerable time at US/Canada/UK universities. I do not think your Moroccan or Algerian friends will encounter anything other than the usual problems in KSA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mia Xanthi wrote:
The only Lebanese that I have ever heard claim themselves to be of "Phoeneican" origin were Lebanese Christians who (in my humble opinion) were trying to distinguish themselves as much as possible from Arab Muslim Lebanese.

According to my 7th sense, ghost has "Phoeneician" genes in his blood! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
miski



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I misread teachers for leeches and thought you meant all the ones who work in the Avenues............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The only Lebanese that I have ever heard claim themselves to be of "Phoeneican" origin were Lebanese Christians who (in my humble opinion) were trying to distinguish themselves as much as possible from Arab Muslim Lebanese. Like Cleopatra, I view this as a myth that some use to claim that they are somehow racially superior to others. I find it somewhat offensive.


Coptic Christian Egyptians have said the same, as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard anybody suggest Coptic Christians were different from other Egyptians (MOD edit).

Now, there used to be a vast Greek community in Egypt until Nasser kicked them out. Alexandria used to be the second largest Greek city in the world after Athens (I believe that position has now been taken by Melbourne).

With regard to the Levant, Nasim Taleeb does have some interesting things to say in The Black Swan. One thing he points out is the whole region of the Levant has been replaced in other's consciousness by the Middle East.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've never heard anybody suggest Coptic Christians were different from other Egyptians


Really? I thought such a 'belief' was quite common among Copts. I once met a young Coptic man from Cairo who swore to me that he was "not an Arab, he was an Egyptian" (I should add that Muslim Egyptians sometimes also make the same claim). He sincerely beleived that he - but not Muslim Egyptians - was a direct descendant of the Pharonic inhabitants of Egypt. This man also told me that "Coptic", not Arabic, was his first language, which must surely have been a lie.

In reality, of course, contemporary Egyptians of all faiths are a mixture of the many, many peoples who have inhabited that land over the past several thousand years. The same goes for the Lebanese. Given the historical ethnic diversity of this part of the world, to imagine that people alive in 2008 could be the 'pure' descendants of one particular group which flourised two or three thousand years ago is obivously arrant nonsense with a clear racist tinge.

Quote:
One thing he points out is the whole region of the Levant has been replaced in other's consciousness by the Middle East


This is true. When one thinks of all the different Arabic words used to describe different parts of the "Middle East" - Maghreb, Mashreq, Khaleej, Shams etc - it becomes more obvious that the very notion of the "Middle East' is rather a new one, existing more in the minds of outsiders than of the locals themselves. And don't even get me started on the media use of the term "Middle East" to refer to the tiny land patch of Israel/Palestine, as in "There was further violence in the Middle East today".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China