Job Discussion Forums

[cmp45]

James van cleave...it makes me wonder what you are doing/ saying in the classroom to bring out such student comments...students don't normally act this way unless the teacher is saying or doing things to bring out said behavior ...in the 8 years that I have taught in KSA I have never encountered such nonsenical student behavior.

I think if what you say is true, then it is a rare exception indeed! At least at the college level in my experience this type of nonsense has never occurred...perhaps at secondary level maybe.....or possibly miltary cadets????

[james van cleave]

Yes, true...generally military cadets...but that doesn't make it any more excusable. I have also encountered this behavior (to varying degrees) at Aramco and ADNOC.
There are decent, capable students in the gulf...but I would say they are generally in the minority. Students who achieve are often bullied or mocked by their peers..in my experience.
I have left the Persian (yes, Persian) Gulf, I hope, for good. I am fully aware that they have always offered me a job when I needed one and have almost always been fair with me-I wish them well.
I have also seen them brutalize and nearly destroy teachers who would be an asset to any school system on earth.

[cmp45]

Yes it is unexcusable behavior no matter who it is...It requires a 'special' kind of teacher to be able to work with such unruly students...I believe that Military students aren't usually known for their polite studious demeanor, you certainly have to develope a tough skin and decide not to take any of the student's nonsense personally...guess going for the high salary with these military outfits regardless of the environment one has to work in...seems to be the trade off.

[Mia Xanthi]

I wouldn't want anyone to come to the US, teach in gang-dominated inner city schools, and then go home claiming that all American students were thugs. In the same vein, I don't think you can compare the low-level students recruited for ADNOC or the military to upper-crust college students in Saudi Arabia.

Having said that, yes, I have experienced disgusting and threatening behavior from students in the Gulf. One male student had to be kicked off campus because he would start...ahem...playing with himself in my class or whenever he could find me. I also received threatening anti-US propaganda by e-mail from a student. I taught many of the pitiful "boys from Baniyas" who had never received a real education and therefore had no respect for a real educator.

Furthermore, ANY student in the Gulf who is humiliated and treated disrespectfully can turn on you and become your worst nightmare.

I have also taught many, many more wonderful, respectful students in the Gulf. Do not paint them all with the same brush, as you would not want them to do this to you. Overall, my impression of Gulf students is overwhelmingly POSITIVE.

[johnslat]

Dear Mia,
Nineteen years teaching such students, and I say a BIG AMEN to your post.

Regards,
John

[Mark100]

I never taught upper class students in Saudi and from my experience that would be a very small number of students overall.

The majority of EFL teachers in the kingdom teach lower level students and for many these are military cadets.

For the most part it is a constant battle and war of attritution.

I was lucky because i only taught 8 hours a week and only six months of the year and the best of the worst students so i could indulge myself in my personal interests.

However even the small amount of teaching i did was too much and if i had had to do anymore or had some of the bad classes that other teachers had i definitely wouldn't have lasted.

I certainly couldn't have survived at BAE or even at the Aramco training institute.

For the most part teaching is a very tough gig in Saudi and not for the faint hearted.

Trained high school teachers with lots of high school experience would probably do okay as they would be more used to the sort of problems you face with discipline.

With the way the US dollar is now the Gulf needs to be considered very carefully as a viable option considering the sacrifices you need to make.

[scot47]

I have heard that BAe cadets cam be like the monsters described by james.
Certainly students at university/college level - in my experience - are not.

That is I suppose one reason why I earn a lot less than BAe folk. I rather enjoy my work. I wonder how many at BAe can say that ?

[Cleopatra]

[james van cleave]

Actually, I have taught at an inner city school in the US..East LA, in fact. True, it was not exactly a day at the races...but nowhere near as humiliating or disheartening as some of my gigs in the Gulf.
Most of the students I had in the Gulf were not street urchins. They had to have a lot of Wasta to get into these programs. It was the enlisted guys who were usually more decent, respectful and willing to actually learn something.
Someone mentioned above a subject I've never seen discussed on this site...male to male sexual harassment in the Gulf. Believe me, it's been a problem.

[Stephen Jones]