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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| The teacher must understand the grammar (would you ask a mathematics teacher if he or she should understand the rules of his discipline?) |
I don't know if teaching math and teaching a foreign language are the same. |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| The teacher must understand the grammar (would you ask a mathematics teacher if he or she should understand the rules of his discipline?) |
I don't know if teaching math and teaching a foreign language are the same. |
I sucked at maths and ended up a teacher of English. I suppose these are two different planets of their own! |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| I had English since 4th grade (out of 12) |
While I am sure that you might be able to find a grammar error in my post, I doubt too many native speakers would use this sentence. Probably none. If I am wrong I hope that someone will correct me. If you are using "since", you probably need to be using the present perfect(I have studied English since fourth grade.)Indicating that you started studying English in fourth grade and continue to study English up until today.
If you want to use the simple past you should use "from" instead of since. (I had English from fourth grade to twelfth grade.) |
What if I DO study it and today? Life-long learning and self-study don't count? |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| travellingscot wrote: |
Kootvela- you wrote "I had English since 4th grade (out of 12). Two, then three times per week. Plus, 6 years at university. Also, we did grammar from the scratch, like parts of speech, conjugations, etc."
If you have not yet realised your mistake then I think it helps to prove my point.I did not have to look in a textbook either. Also, perhaps it is just me, but i don't think I would have used "of" twice later on.
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What point? That native speakers never have tongue slips? WOW!!!!!! |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| hollysuel wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
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| I would have to hear you speak and socialize with you a bit to know, but I wouldn't discount you just because you are not a 'native' speaker of English. I know plenty of native speakers who can not teach English (and thankfully these people don't) and plenty of non-native English teachers who know grammar much better than me... Embarassed |
Of course the question is how important is knowing grammar in becoming functional or even fluent in English or any foreign language. There are Chinese who know English grammar and can score well on an English test yet cannot make a sentence. |
Agree totally! Knowledge of grammar does not make a person fluent in the language.
I would hope that you agree with me that just because a person is a native speaker of English does not give them the automatic ability to teach grammar. Of course, it is all relative! |
Knowledge of grammar does make one more fluent that before and helps teach more efficiently. Lithuanian students of English are obsessed with grammar and want more and more of it, speaking comes next in popularity. |
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ratsareeatingmybrain
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 35
Location: lisbon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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'I had English since 4th grade' sounds like it might be American English to my ears.
Any Americans listening? |
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ratsareeatingmybrain
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 35
Location: lisbon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Oh, reading back to the 'math' comment presumably, JZer, you're American.
Might an American use this construct? |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think anyone is really teaching British, American or Australian English for real. For example, in Lithuania we teach Lithuanian English, where direct translation, pronunciation issues, vocabulary range, collocations are adapted to and from L1. It doesn't matter if the teacher is a native speaker or not. I don't think one can learn a specific variety of language perfectly. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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What if I DO study it and today? Life-long learning and self-study don't count? |
If you still study English today you should be using the Present Perfect. I have studied English since fourth grade.
Any action that started in the past and continues until today needs to use the Present Perfect.
(P.S. If you find any mistakes in my post I was just at the bar so don't kill me.) |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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