Job Discussion Forums

[mouse5]

Ladies, if you're new to KSA and contemplating applying to one of the BELL set-ups, please read the post below. In my own experience it is exactly what you'll be confronted with.

[Cleopatra]

Sorry, but I can't see the point of a post which merely cuts and pastes from another thread! Plus, why does advice specifically pertain to women?

[mistral]

Most of us can't see the point of any of your comments. Thers' nothing wrong with cutting and pasting. I assume you work for BELL. Haven't you got any knitting to do?

[Jim Bigelow]

Most of us???

Whilst I really can't stand much of what I read on this forum I wonder what arrogance would be needed to speak on behalf of people whom I have never met or even spoken to.

As for Bell then when I first took a look at them on the web they did seem like a pretty well run operation until I checked out this forum....

Then the truth was revealed that they are nothing more than a bunch of cowboys ripping people off and cheating both teacher and student alike....

But then I started to read again and I found how utterly absurd my stance was. In reality all there seem to be was one or two people who wrote horrifying reports on how they had been robbed and oppressed etc but that was it? For such a large company shouldn't there be more teachers (as with other cowboy operations in the past) jumping in and exposing them?

I found that the main people who HATE bell didn't even end up taking jobs with them for reasons such as ''and what made me really stay away was the fact that bell don't even sign the contract with you'. Yes and this is KSA and that is the way that things are often run but it doesn't mean there is anything shady about it.

Mistral you added nothing to this post except being rude to Cleopatra. I personally don't see any thing wrong in cutting and pasting if relevant and I suspect Mouse5 posted her post as Bell are recruiting for the the ladies section but I find it very suspicious that people keep attacking BELL and bring nothing of any substance to support their viewpoint.

I remember a poster who was appalled at the cowboy style management and he gave his simply shocking experience as he knew a very intelligent teacher who went to the a manager and was told he was busy and come back after lunch. He waited 2 hours and went back to be told I'm busy come back later or tommorow'!

Err....ok....right.... yeah that is really really terrible! That's it? The manager was too busy to see you and that's all you bring to show their incompetence?

Sounds to me like a bunch of contractors trying to stem the flow of teachers to Bells mammoth recruitment drive combined with some people who obviously are not suited for work in KSA or have no idea of how things work out here.

Am I wrong but no teachers who are currently working for Bell have posted? Often the places that tend to be half decent have few people commenting on the forum. IPA, KAAU etc are pretty quiet all year round.

[EFLUndercover]

If there is a consensus from a group of teachers and/or management staff that a recruiting agency is unfair in its employment practices then such information is useful to the public.

However, there is no benefit to readers if it is the complaint of one disgruntled employee as their specific situation may not be applicable to all.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, there are two sides to a story and I find it a bit disingenous for one or a few posters to expect that others will reject an employment offer based on unverifiable complaints.

[scot47]

Sounds like a vendetta run by one individual. Have a look at the thread about "Happy TEFlers in Riyadh". Those chaps all look very happy.

Some individuals - perhaps the originator of the anti-Bell thread - should not come to KSA.

[Paul in Saudi]

I fail to understand this. The OP seems to say he (or she) does not like Bell. OK, got it. Now you want to give us more specifics about the problems?

Is not paying for your taxi really a deal-breaking issue? Is 100SAR even worth mentioning?

It seems the OP has a serious grudge.

[micromegas]

What surprises me most is that very few people really understand the Bell set-up, even those who have worked for the trust and still criticise it.

In the past, Bell partners used the Bell name and logo, its expertise in education, its reputation, and in return the partner paid Bell a fee each year for these services. I assume this still happens. Bell does not usually have a majority stake in its partnerships overseas so working conditions are still controlled by the partner. Even still, Bell does listen to its teachers and tries to ensure high standards for them and of them, and will try to do its uttermost to help the teachers it recruits. They make mistakes but in TELF there are many others who make far worse ones, and I found that Bell always tried to improve. It's not the Council, not Berlitz, not EF, not Wall Street, not... . TELF has become cut-throat. Bell are only trying to get in where the Council cannot (thank the powers that be) or where less reputable or moral outfits would try to get a quick profit, especially at our expense.

I have good reason to praise Bell. I have worked for Bell a couple of times - in Europe and the Far East. I found that they have high standards in the main, especially in Europe where they are members of such TEFL organisations as English UK and Eaquals. I found it far less cliquey than the Council and in fact a better employer. Thanks to Bell, I now have a lot of experience in teacher training, management, and Bell helped me with my DELTA.

I don't work for Bell anymore but I never hesitate to recommend the trust.

[desert_traveller]

can i just make a humble contribution to this thread, maintaining that i am one of the teachers who eventually did not accept the offer from bell and thus did not work for the saudi company they recruit for in saudia

i think the main problem here as i can see it is that people keep talking about bell and bell and bell

i firmly believe that it is a mistake as bell is not a player in the whole ksu setup. bell is the recruiter. thats it. they may have a sort of 'observer and commentator' role in the actual running of the show in saudia, but surely not a definitive say. once the teacher is in, bell is out, simply put, and if it is true what one poster says here that they even include a clause in their communication that says that once the teacher is in the ksa, bell is not responsible for anything anymore, then i think it is a pretty powerful proof for what i am saying here

bell may be a decent employer anywhere else in the world, but they CANT be in saudia, coz THEY ARE NOT THE EMPLOYER and have no means to function as an employer, good or bad

so a constructive way to carry on with the discussion would be to mention bell when touching upon recruitment issues, and talk about the actual EMPLOYER when discussin stuff in saudia. so for example, if u are promised single accommodation by bell during recruitment stage and get shared accommodation in saudia, the only thing you can blame bell for is giving you false information (deliberately or not, thats another question), but you cant really blame them for not giving you single accommodation, coz they just simply CANT - you can only blame it on the actual employer (and hiding the responsible ones and making them inaccessible is one of the greatest but standard tricks of the saudis)

if u think of bell as the employer and expect treatment from the employer as you would from bell (which is probably the reason for outsourcing recruitment to bell by the saudi employer) not only are you unfair with bell but also with yourself

bear in mind pls:

once the teacher is in, bell is out

(and, apparently, bell readily and openly admits this as a matter of fact in their official communication)

imho

[elsteacherjasmine]

I've got an offer from Bell (though I haven't got the contract yet). I've just been asked to arrange a medical exam and get my certs notarised.

Bell did mention that I would be under Obeikan, their partner in KSA. So far, they have not mentioned about them not taking any resposibilities once the teacher is in KSA. So is this mentioned when they give the contract?

What is actually bad about this whole thing? I mean, does Obeikan not give the salary in time or mistreat the staff or not give /let them obtain an Iqama?

I don't mind paying the little bits and pieces of expenses for the visa, transport and so on.

What I really worry about is my employment status, my work environment and freedom (I heard that you can't do much without an Iqama).

[word_to_the_wise]

I don't work for Bell Riyadh but I know several people at the top. Like any project in the Gulf, it is what you make of it. If you are competent then you won't have any problems.Those that use these forums for negativity have invariably been booted out for incompetence and short-changing the students - not to mention being terminal bores in the staffroom.

[Jim Bigelow]

As I have previously mentioned much of what people are up in arms about is just standard business practise in KSA.

1 or 2 people keep going on about the same point.......

Oh you cant trust them because they are just a recruiter

Oh you can't trust them because Obeikan are the ones who sign the contract not Bell.

It really is quite simple!

Bell are clearly not just a recruiter. They are in partnership with Obeikan who in turn are in partnership with KSU. as for the contract side of things then of course Obeikan control that side of things as they are the only ones allowed by KSU to recruit-as a Saudi company which Bell are not.

Do you think ELS, Berlitz, Wall Street etc are registered under those names in the Saudi Chamber of Commerce? They operate under a registered SAUDI company and are then allowed to use the franchise name however all visas etc must be issued from the Saudi business name and not ELS , Berlitz etc.

I'm rushing but basically those who have little idea of how things work in KSA would be better of asking more why questions and less 'I know' comments.

At the same time perhaps that's just simply and example of those who would not be able to survive out here? I'm not being arrogant for I know there are many places in the world that I would also struggle to survive.

Calm down..!

[desert_traveller]

[Mia Xanthi]

I think the issue here is the reputation of recruiters in Saudi Arabia. Many people have come over for "good" jobs that they got through a recruiter, only to find that they had accepted substandard salaries and benefits compared to direct hires for the same company. Furthermore, those that were hired on the recruiter's contract often found that they were treated as dispensable, second-class employees.

Anyone seeking a job in the Middle East should be extremely careful to know the exact relationship between the recruiter and the employer and to know precisely for whom you will work and who will be accountable for you in the Kingdom. Some of the recruiter/employer relationships are deceptive, perhaps intentionally so.

That being said, some are honest and straightforward. I myself came over through a kind of recruiter, but the organization was very honest with me about their obligations to me and it was clear from the beginning that I worked for their client and not for them. Howtever, there were those hired by the same recruiting organization who came over at the same time as I did who felt deceived when they found out that the original recruiting organization was not responsible for them and did not look out for their well-being when they arrived.

It sounds to me like Bell is a responsible recruiter. However, if your goal is to work FOR Bell, you need to pay attention to the above posts. It is evident to me that you will be hired by Bell, and that is where their responsibilites to you end. The best that Bell can do is try to be honest in their promises to you...as long as the employer is honest with Bell! Therein lies the problem.

[desert_traveller]

well, lets be constructive and methodical about the issue
here's the relevant bit from the bell job an from tefl.com:

Bell seeks qualified, enthusiastic and dedicated EFL professionals for a foundation programme at King Saud University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

The King Saud University Preparatory Year Intensive English Programme, jointly managed by Bell and its partner in Saudi Arabia, Obeikan Research and Development, is being established in a purpose-built training centre on the University Campus, with state-of-the-art facilities.

We have a large number of teaching posts available on both the male and female campus on a pioneering programme at one of the country's finest and best-resourced universities.

so ... bell seeks etc ... ok, this is true, this is their job, to seek teachers for the job

but then it says: ... jointly managed ... which implies shared responsibility, shared decision making, participating as equal partners etc etc, thats what management is, isnt it? well, bell admit that they cant take any responsibility for the teachers, and hr is part of managing an academic program, isnt it ... also from accounts it seems pretty clear that bell have no vote in decision making, maybe they can sort of air their opinion, but sort of impose their will on the saudi employer if their opinions differ ... no no no !!! even the mere idea is laughable, sure, bell will tell the saudis what to do ... come on ... so the 'jointly managed' bit is definitely misleading imho bell can manage as far as their leash held by the saudis lets them go

and then it says 'we have a large number of posts available' well it again implies that bell are the employer which again is misleading coz they are not. they recruit for a large number of posts that are available at the saudi employer, but its not them who HAVE the posts, strictly speaking

yes yes ...