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Asking to see a contract

 
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ellienihon



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 34
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:24 am    Post subject: Asking to see a contract Reply with quote

I applied for a job, had a phone interview, and the school's owner asked if I had any more questions. I asked if I could see the employee contract, and get in contact with the current teacher. I got shot down. When is the appropriate time to ask for this information?

and WTF is the big deal? (She was rather firm in her refusal)
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: Asking to see a contract Reply with quote

ellienihon wrote:
I applied for a job, had a phone interview, and the school's owner asked if I had any more questions. I asked if I could see the employee contract, and get in contact with the current teacher. I got shot down. When is the appropriate time to ask for this information?

and WTF is the big deal? (She was rather firm in her refusal)


Sounds like shes got something to hide. Tell her that you refuse to sign the contract or consider employment until you have at least read through it. Its not on to expect you to sign onto something without knowing what the conditions are.

Everything they offer should be within Japanese law anyway, and its no big secret about working conditions.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Paul that the employer sounds a bit fishy. However, to play Devil's advocate, we don't even know if the job was offered to you during the phone interview, or how many other applicants were involved.

Unless the job is actually offered, I wouldn't really see any life-threatening reason to see the contract unless you have heard something negative about the place (in which case, why would you apply?). Generally speaking, wait politely until the job is offered.

As for asking to speak to current employees, same thing. Of course, if you ask and they say no, the red flag goes up.
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ask to see a contract before she offered you the job or not? If you weren't offered the job, than maybe I can see her reluctance. I wouldn't show someone a contract unless I was going to offer them a job.
If she did offer you a job, than you should be grateful she got upset. You know you shouldn't work there. Like Paul said, you can't be expected to agree to something if you don't know the terms. You're right, never work somewhere until you've talked to a current teacher at the school.
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ellienihon



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 34
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. I should wait to ask for these things. I misjudged her eagerness on the phone. I'm new to this whole having a real job thing-- is everyone that protective of their contracts and such?

Shirouto da yo, yurusite kure.
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ruggedtoast



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 81
Location: tokyo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Non up front companies are dodgy. Reply with quote

Sounds pretty dodgy to me. I had to got for an interview for one tokyo eikawa. The Japanese owner "interviewed" me, which meant he just talked at me for 20 minutes without asking me a songle question during which time I learnt that I would have one day off a week, teach people, and be paid - something - depending on some byzantine hour/holiday/month/lesson/student age plan he'd invented.

He graciously said I could call him again a week later and booted me out the door.

I called a week later and he offered me a job to start straight away but promptly withdrew his offer when he decided that I was "not happy".

Not happy - meant that I actually started trying to get him to give me some concrete information on working conditions - notably visa sponsorship as I was on a tourist visa at the time and he seemed suspiciously vage about when he might (if at all) start sponsorship proceedings for me and how long this might take.

I had a lucky escape - Im sure you did too.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Non up front companies are dodgy. Reply with quote

ruggedtoast wrote:

Not happy - meant that I actually started trying to get him to give me some concrete information on working conditions - notably visa sponsorship as I was on a tourist visa at the time and he seemed suspiciously vage about when he might (if at all) start sponsorship proceedings for me and how long this might take.

I had a lucky escape - Im sure you did too.


The record I heard is seven months for the employer to do the paperwork for sponsoring a visa from a tourist visa, before the guy realised he was getting the runaround by his boss In that time it was possible to still be deported for working on an illegal visa.
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sutekigaijin



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with Paul that the employer sounds a bit fishy. However, to play Devil's advocate, we don't even know if the job was offered to you during the phone interview, or how many other applicants were involved.

Unless the job is actually offered, I wouldn't really see any life-threatening reason to see the contract unless you have heard something negative about the place (in which case, why would you apply?). Generally speaking, wait politely until the job is offered.

As for asking to speak to current employees, same thing. Of course, if you ask and they say no, the red flag goes up.


Of course, Glenski knows best here. Be sure to listen to him. His advice is always A-1. Don't ever forget it.
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carmenz



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:08 am    Post subject: talking to a current teacher before signing contract. Reply with quote

Anytime you want to talk to a current teacher is the APPROPRIATE time to do that. If an employer turns you down that should stop you dead in your tracks from signing anything with them. They probably have something to hide because it is common practice to talk to a current teacher before signing on....Don't be uncomfortable to ask. You are the one who has to live with your decision about taking the job.

Better yet, talk to two teachers and get a more well rounded opinion of the place. Do this or you could (and probably will) have MAJOR regrets later. Don't put yourself in this position. The schools know you will probably ask for this and they know they should be ready for this and if they say no.....that would be a HUGE red flag for me.
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