Job Discussion Forums

[louis.p]

I submitted an invitation letter, a work permit and other materials to the Chinese embassy in San Fransisco. The visa agency I used just called and said that the embassy needs me to submit a work permit. I looked at the copies of the documents I sent out and indeed one is titled 外國專家來華許可表.I told the visa service that "work permit" is clearly written in Chinese on one of the forms. The service called the embassy back and they said that my work permit was issued by a province (Heilongjiang), which is true, and that I need one that is issued by the national government. I am scheduled to leave 8/20. Does this make sense? Any comments/advice? Thanks.

[North China Laowei]

[louis.p]

Hi NCL,



Yes, the Chinese consulate.

I live in Seattle. The visa service I am using submitted my documents for the Z visa regarding teachers.

I have contacted my school and they are trying to obtain the proper documentation. I have asked them for a tentative timeline.

After looking at my copy of the work permit, it is clear that it came from the provincial government. I had no idea that the relative provincial-level authorities are not included within the scope of the Chinese Labor Ministry.

Thanks.

[North China Laowei]

[louis.p]

Hi NCL and others,

The problem has been resolved. The lesson this problem brought up is that work permits should be issued by the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs opposed to a provincial unit.

Thanks NCL,


Louis

[arioch36]

[North China Laowei]

[IanMWashburn]

In my understanding, only the SAFEA can legally print and issue "Foreign Expert Certificates" (FECs).

The State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs has offices in most major cities. These are usually called something like "Foreign Experts Offices".

However, provincial and municipal governments across China routinely print and issue FECs. These are essentially fakes. If you compare them closely with the ones printed by the SAFEA, you can see slight differences in the typeface and layout.

Also, the fakes will not have the red SAFEA chop (seal) on the first page, not will they say in English "State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs, Peoples Republic of China".

The fakes will have the name of the issuing provincial or municipal "Foreign Affairs Office" (not Foreign Experts Office"). on the first page. Sometimes there is a red chop of the Foreign Affairs Office here or somewhere else in the document.

In Qingdao for example, the SAFEA Foreign Experts Office is located on the second floor of their Municipal Building. On the 20th floor of the same building, is the Qingdao Foreign Affairs Office, which issues the fake FECs to schools that have no license from the SAFEA to hire foreign teachers.

This is much more than a "turf war" between competing agencies. It is an instance of widespread government corruption at the provincial and municipal levels.

The PSB issues the Residence Permit for Foreigners (RPF) based on the FEC. If and when they realize that an FEC is not a real SAFEA one, they can and do withdraw the RPF and require that the foreigner leave the country. However, even within the local ENtry/Exit Unit of the local PSBs, they often seem not to care very much that the FECs are technically fake, unless someone makes an issue of it.

Of course, the foreign teacher doesn't want to make an issue out of it. Because even though the foreigner is "right", and the school and the issuing Foreign Affairs officials will get into trouble, the foreigner will be forced to leave the country.

To be safe:

1. Make sure your school has an SAFEA license to hire foreign teachers. Ask for their certificate number and/or a copy of the certificate.

2. Make sure you sign a genuine SAFEA printed contract. There will be two identical copies in both English and Chinese. They each bear a serial number. There are two "originals". Keep your original in case of problems. The SAFEA can be most helpful and protective, but only if you have your original contract.

If you work for a non-SAFEA approved school, and this is the norm in China, you are basically at the mercy of your employer and have little recourse to the protection of the SAFEA, the courts or the PSB.

Because you have a fake FEC, your RPF can be revoked, if you make an issue of it. Although you have provincial or municipal government documents, these are essentially fake, and offer you no protection or recourse in the event of problems with the employer.

This kind of thing happens across all levels of Chinese officialdom, with the provincial and municipal governments thumbing their noses at the central PRC government, and pretty much doing what they please, especially by creating and issuing their own licenses, permits, certificates, laws and regulations, instead of complying with PRC laws. It is still a feudal society with local warlords turned local governmental officials, and local fiefdoms turned into local government offices. Day by day it gets more centralized and standardized, but for the foreseeable future, China's provincial and local governments are dominated by corruption, collusion and criminality.

Good luck.

[Leon Purvis]

"...Make sure you sign a genuine SAFEA printed contract. There will be two identical copies in both English and Chinese. They each bear a serial number..."

I've never seen such numbers on any of my contracts while working for public universities. When is this supposed to start? My new contract has no such numbers, and my university is no fly-by-night outfit.

[North China Laowei]

[Leon Purvis]

HFG,

Right. This is China, and there are no absolutes.

I've never seen any contract with a number on it. Two years back I worked for a large university that had just dumped over half a billion yuan on a phase of a high tech campus. The FAO was a high-ranking party member. I doubt seriously that anyone would try to pull a stunt and jeopardize a career.

[North China Laowei]

[jamesmollo]

[Leon Purvis]

NCL,

I meant no disrespect. I merely typed the wrong initials.

If you want to feel offended and disrespected, go right ahead.

I am sorry that you took umbrage to my having contradicted you.

I've never seen a numbered contract from a university, and I know no one who has ever been issued one by a public university. I've never even seen SAFEA mentioned in any of my contracts.

Maybe it's a Harbin thing.

Or your thing.

Happy trails.

[IanMWashburn]

NCL asks that we return to "��the topic at hand, which has nothing to do with SAFEA contracts�

This is part of the confusion.

SAFEA contracts have everything to do with valid Z visas.

As the OP stated in one of his postings,

"The problem has been resolved. The lesson this problem brought up is that work permits should be issued by the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs opposed to a provincial unit."

There is a very clear chain.

You get a valid SAFEA work permit, together with a letter of invitation from an SAFEA registered school.

Then you get a valid Z visa.

Then when you arrive in China you get a valid SAFEA contract.

Then you get a valid SAFEA issued Foreign Experts Certificate.

Then the PSB Entry/Exit people stick a valid Residence Permit for Foreigner in your passport.

"Problems with Z visas" is intimately intertwined with issues concerning valid SAFEA issued work permits, contracts and FECs.

Only the corruption of employers and provincial and local governmental officials, and the ignorance or acquiescence of foreign teachers, allows this relatively clear and simple process to remain mystified.

To say, "This is China", has a certain amount of practical sense to it.

However, it means, "This is China. Therefore you can't expect the Chinese people to behave up to a certain standard."

I agree with those that call this, "the soft bigotry of lowered expectations."

If we are to help China and the Chinese people, or ourselves for that matter, perhaps we would do well to expect more of them and ourselves.

In the U.S., we are seeing the result of lowered expectations. Because of ignorance and acquiescence, our economy is being looted, our educational systems neutered, our social and physical environments laid waste, and a would-be world empire constructed on the ruins.

Once we abandon the rule of law, then we no longer benefit from the protections of the law.

If you are teaching in China without an SAFEA issued FEC, then your Z visa and your Residence Permit are technically invalid.

True, most of us are working under these conditions. Our guanxi, or that of our employers, keeps us safe. At the moment.

But in China, what works today may not work tomorrow.

This is what happened as the Olympic games began. Suddenly and without warning, the central government sent word down the chain of command, to adhere strictly to the laws and regulations governing the hiring and residence of foreign teachers in China.

To be safe, live by the rules of the land.

Otherwise, don't complain when they stamp "Ten days to depart China" into your passport.

As that guy from Minnesota once sang, "To live outside the law, you must be honest."

Good luck.