Job Discussion Forums

chrisd · Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Crossville, TN

So far I have received contracts from 2 different schools and I have turned down both. Main reason: they were far too vague. I couldn't figure out either what they were offering or what they were requiring. When turning down the contracts, I was polite, but very specific on stating my reasons. I went through the contracts and told the school every phrase/sentence that I didn't like or that needed clarification. I have ended each rejection by saying, "I am looking forward to receiving a contract that is both exact and honorable."

Each time I turned down a contract, I assumed I had ended any possibility of working in China. However, my information keeps being passed along and I get an email from someone else: "Are you still interested in teaching in China?"

We'll see what comes of my stubbornness.

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

englishmaster · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 118

In keeping with the spirit of the original post of this thread, I am happy to report that I resisted three offers of underpaid employment in China and am now working in southeast Asia for a much more decent salary. I even got an offer from BJ Normal U for only RMB5000 per month! Two established private unis offered me over 6000 per month, but that wasn't enough, either.

I taught in China back in the 90s when salaries were even lower than now, and am not going to go through it again. Chinese seem to look on westerners, to whom they owe so much, as objects to be ripped off if possible--it just goes to show that no matter how developed China becomes technologically, it's still backward socially.

chrisd · Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Crossville, TN

Is it possible that this is simply the Communist worldview: that everyone and everything is a commodity? When living under that kind of paradigm long enough (and being treated that way by everyone else), it seems that this becomes a way of life. Then, we westerners come along and demand to be treated with respect simply because we are human beings who desire to bring something of value to others.

chrisd · Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Crossville, TN

Snoopbot. Thanks so much for your valuable input. I have been surprised at the level of negativity coming from so many FT's in China. Yet, you guys still teach there. I don't quite understand why...

I am not so interested in China that I am willing to take just anything. I AM looking forward to seeing this new contract which I've been promised will be "very detailed and honorable" (my requirement).

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

chrisd · Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Crossville, TN

I've been getting this same picture ever since I first logged on to this site months ago.

Just today I rec'd an email telling me that the school would not allow me to email former/current teachers since they "didn't know who I was" (even though they had all my info and had said they wanted to interview me). They also couldn't allow me to see their policy manual as that was "secret" information.

I wrote back and said that if I owned a business in the US and was offering a job to someone from China, I would want him/her to know everything about the business he was considering working for. And, if I was proud of my business, I would want him/her to speak to everyone who knew anything about the business (employees, customers, etc). Also, if I were hiring someone from China, I would pay for relocation expenses, including accommodations. After all, he/she would be moving into a new culture and would need to be treated as if I were happy to have him "on board".

If I couldn't do these things for someone I wanted to hire from China, I wouldn't expect him to be very interested in moving across the world to work for me.

I then said that anything less than being treated with this kind of respect was demeaning and was what gave Chinese schools a bad reputation among foreign teachers. If I couldn't be treated as a professional, then the school didn't need to bother with an interview. I was not that desperate for a teaching job in China.

I know I'm stubborn, but I'm really not that hard up for a teaching job in China!

theincredibleegg · Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 224

I'm hoping that they will implement visa regulations in practice and not just in theory... Or do something about the F-visas.

Orrin · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 206 Location: Zhuhai, China

Here is most of a post that I put up on a local expat site in response to a local teacher who really got screwed on his salary. I'm sure that many of you who have been around her for a while know what I'm talking about, and have had more than one similar experience.

At one time or another ALL of us who are in this business experience similar, if not worse, circumstances. Unfortunately, this is the state that this business has descended to. There is, however, a ray of hope; at least for those of us who are already in China.

Today, and for the past few months, the local labor departments and PSB offices have made it extremely difficult and costly, if not downright impossible, for ANY school or university in Zhuhai, and other cities as well, to recruit teachers from outside of China. The qualifications or experience of the candidates doesn�t matter; the labor departments are simply not issuing any new FECs or work permits which are required before a residence permit (1-year visa) can be issued.

This means that the schools and universities are in a desperate situation and have only one hope to acquire the teachers they need for the beginning of the fall semester; and that is to recruit qualified and documented teachers WHO ARE ALREADY IN CHINA! Over the past few weeks I have been bombarded with text messages, emails, and phone calls (I have no idea how they got my phone #) begging me to teach, either full-time or part-time at their establishments, none of which I ever knew existed. Here is how the phone conversations usually go:

RING! RING!

Me: �hello�

Caller: �Oh hello (in a thick Asian accent). Is this Mr. Orrin?�

Me: �Who�s calling please?�

Caller: �This is Miss XXXX from ZZZZ university/school in Gongbei.�

Me: �What can I do for you?�

Caller: �My boss wanted me to offer you a teaching position at our school.�

Me: �Thank you; but I already have a very good full-time teaching job.�

Caller: �Oh, well you can work for us part-time then, OK? We pay 100RMB.�

Me: �What school did you say you were with again?�

Caller: �ZZZZ university/school. It�s very famous all over China.�

Me: �I�m sorry, but I�ve never heard of it.�

Caller: �Oh; didn�t you get my text message last week?�

Me: �I don�t know. Did you text me in English?�

Caller: �err.. When are you going to visit our school? It�s in Gongbei.�

Me: �I�m not. You are asking me to do something illegal. Do you know that?�

Caller: �Umm, that�s OK; my boss can fix that. So, when will you visit us?�

Me: �never�

Caller: �(crying) My boss will be very angry with me if you don�t visit us.�

Me: �Have your boss call me directly. I�ll talk to him.�

Caller: �Oh thank you! So what day next week will you visit our school?�

Me: CLICK!

I guess what I�m trying to say with all of this is that right now, at least for the next couple of months, it is a seller�s (teacher�s) market in the EFL business here. A qualified, documented, in-China teacher can pretty much dictate their own terms with just about any school or university. There is, however, a caveat. Please understand this, and understand it very well. Under the terms and conditions of your work permit or FEC it is ILLEGAL for you to work for any employer other than the one who sponsored you for those documents for the duration of your contract. In other words, YOU CAN HAVE ONLY ONE EMPLOYER AT A TIME IN CHINA!

Having said all of this, if you think you are getting a �raw deal� from your current employer, there are many, many teaching opportunities out there for the taking. If you want to avail yourself of those opportunities, please do it the right, and legal way. To ensure that, there are two things that you absolutely MUST do.

One: Make absolutely sure that your prospective new employer/school has the proper authorizations to hire and document foreign teachers. You would be surprised at the number of companies/schools who advertise on this site and others, and who have very impressive websites, who do not have that authorization. It is your responsibility to find that out before you make any commitments or �burn any bridges�.

Two: If you are going to terminate your contract prematurely, do it correctly. Don�t �pull a runner�! Virtually every teacher�s contract contains an �exit clause�. Simply stated, the contract requires that the exiting teacher give 30 days written notice of his/her premature departure. If the teacher complies with that exit clause, the school is obliged, under law, to provide the teacher with a �release letter� which states that the school thereby releases said teacher from any further contractual obligations. It is then a simple matter for the new school to transfer the teacher�s work/residence permits to their sponsorship.

If the exiting teacher decides to �pull a runner� and depart without the release letter, it is virtually assured that the teacher will have to leave China, most likely to his/her home country, and apply for a �Z� visa there before returning to China. That could be very expensive, and take anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months to process.

So, if you want to dump your current crappy school and your a*****e boss for another, better teaching gig in China, make it easy on yourself and do it legally.