Job Discussion Forums

[Mozilla]

Just thought I'd get everyone's comments on this, but I was having this discussion with a chinese teacher who was telling me that her impressions of westerners is extremely negative. She says that she has worked with a couple of them in the past (teaching) and said that they always come off as overbearing, loud, and obnoxious.


Is this what all Taiwanese think of us? Do we (for the most part) deserve this kind of label?

[Aristotle]

If she doesn't like foreigners then why does she work with them?
I hear these kind of comments a lot, particularly about western women from Chinese women. In my experience it has a lot more to do with jealousy and ignorance than anything else.
A.

[TaoyuanSteve]

I think some ex-pats over here can be obnoxious. There are alot of people over here to party it up and travel. This fact becomes obvious in their work ethic displayed on the job. I think some of the resentment also stems from the fact that we make considerably more than our Chinese counterparts with often far lower levels of responsibility. Still, Mozilla, it sounds like your co-teacher has a pretty solid relationship with you if she can confide in you so honestly. It took me a while to be taken seriously by my Chinese coworkers. Some have come to like me quite alot. I've made a few friends among them (one is even my Mandarin tutor --free of charge). I think a way for us to create a better image for ouselves is to take what we do half way seriously, show some cultural sensitivity and take a sincere interest in our Chinese co-teachers as people.

The co-teachers I work with have opinions of westerners that vary according to their experiences. Some like us. Others? Well...

[Mozilla]

Not exactly a good relationship, it's more of a you're here, I might as well bitch at you about your kind type of deal. I can't say I blame them. I was in a coffee shop the other day and I see this old foreigner screaming at some tiny little chinese girl because it was taking so long to brew the coffee.


I've also heard of much worse stories and I'm starting to hate foreigners here myself.

[killian]

"a couple of them" begets "they always".

if i was to make sweeping generalizations of all your countrymen based upon firsthand knowledge of two (2) of them, how much validity would you give to my disgruntlement?

people are gonna find reasons to complain. me? i have never met a person i didn't like. it is all a matter of perspective.

[daily chai]

Good points, Killian.

[Mozilla]

Very true Killian.


When I first moved here I met two S.African guys I just wanted to beat the living piss out of because they were so arrogant and obnoxious. Luckily this was later on balanced by the three very, very kind S.Africans I met later who have been nothing but kind and caring to me.

[razoo]

I'm not usually overbearing or loud, but I'm certainly an obnoxious little fella at times. I'm pretty sure I'm one of those awful, pain-in-the-a** foreigners.

Some of the reasons I'm such a pain:

I teach preschoolers. We're using Spectrum Phonics, a native-speaker, first-grade-level phonics book which requires me to spend more time on vocabulary than on phonics. The kids just don't have enough vocabulary to benefit from this book. I've griped about this.

We're also using a first-grade-level Singaporean grammar book (before I came to this school, I didn't even know anyone made grammar books for first-graders). The kids aren't yet at the stage where they can consciously grasp grammatical concepts with any kind of facility, especially when explained to them in English (I've tried to explain a few things to them in my inadequate Chinese). I've griped about this. I also cover the grammar materials a lot more slowly than the management would like me to.

And when I first got there, the kids were "reading" one of Sara Cone Bryant's stories, a story which was published in 1907 and listed--back then-- under "Second Grade." The vocabulary and sentence structure were 'way above the kids' heads. My griping at least got them to change that one.

All of this is in a class of Taiwanese four- to six-year-olds who don't yet have a rudimentary grasp of English and oftentimes have a great deal of trouble just "operating" the books. So I wind up spending a lot of time just getting the kids to circle words, draw lines for "matching" exercises, and fill in blanks. And this curriculum was more or less dictated by the parents. In weekly communications to the parents, I'm not allowed to give even glowing reports mixed with some honest assessment. It has to be unadulterated glowing; I've had heartfelt praise censored by my boss(es) because it wasn't pure enough.

Believe it or not, I like my job, but almost exclusively because of the kids. And the kids know some English, and they're learning more English (but not because of me, and certainly not because of the curriculum--probably because of that magical "LAD" thing that Professor Chomsky talked about). Most days, I truly don't want to be the awful, ill-will-creating foreigner. But once in a while, "Dat's all I can stands, I can't stands no more," and my attitude toward the management resembles that expressed by FDR toward the captains of industry and finance: "I welcome their hatred."

[Wonder]

This thread is very well timed for me. I have been in Taiwan for four months now and I am still having a hard time blending in. I spent two years in Korea, so I not a newbie to Asian culture.

But it's wayyyyyyy different in Taiwan!

I think some Taiwanese people get the wrong imprssion of western people when we get frustrated. I know there are some arrogant people and obnoxious people no matter what. But in my case, I always consider culture and language barriers going into any situation, yet sometimes I still get frustrated and maybe I come off as arrogant or something like that.

Plus, I'm not sure if it's because I'm a new comer, but is there less English speakers here than other Asian contries? I mean, at least in Korea I could get by with poor Korean and their poor English. Here in Taiwan (Chiayi) it seems to be a lot more difficult unless you have some decent Chinese language skills.

And is it my imagination, or do people stare at western white people a lot more here than other Asian countries? Sometimes I go insane! And they always seem to stare when I am attempting to communicate, even in a low-profile way. What's up with that? There are some instances when it's not a big deal. But other times it's as if these people are hoping you will have all sort of trouble so they can see you get frustrated or make a mistake.

I realise that some of these things will disapear soon, but really, after four months I'm still having these vexing problems. I really don't want to be seen as a complainer because otherwise I like it here. And I know it is me visiting this country, not the other way around, so I will have to adapt.

But there's just a few issues I'll have to get past and perhaps some of the western people here viewed as arrogant and obnoxious are having the same problems after being here longer than me.

[Taylor]

Dear Teacher,

Presuming you are in Chia-yi City, that area is still considered "country" by the people of Taipei, Taichung, and Kaohsiung.

If you can't hack it, just go to one of the bigger cities.

Good luck!

Clint

[Wonder]

Hey Taylor, I know what you mean when you suggest I move to one of the bigger cities. Believe it or not, I put myself in this position! I lived in a really big Asian City (Seoul) for a long time and really did not want to go back to that.

I think with some Chinese language lessons and a little more time, I'll be fine. A good woman wouldn't hurt either.

Cheers