Job Discussion Forums

[Madame J]

I am considering embarking upon a CELTA in either Mexico or China next year, but I must admit that all these stories I've been hearing about it being difficult to pass really scare the sh*t out of me. (This is, in fact, exactly the reason why I've bene considering paying an equivalent amount of money to volunteer teach-at least the placement would be guaranteed!) Is it a genuinely difficult course, or is it merely that not everyone puts the work in?

God, this is all so complicated.

[fluffyhamster]

Unless you have really bad English (e.g. would of for would have)/no "language awareness", do little or no pre-course and in-course teaching preparation, absolutely refuse to take on board any of the advice that your trainers give you in teaching practice feedback, and are generally completely unsuited to teaching (e.g. are a shrinking violet, or at the other extreme a bolshy lecturer type who loves the sound of your own voice), I don't see how you could fail. The "hard" thing is getting an A or B grade, as opposed to a plain Pass, but in my experience the people who do get the higher grades don't always turn out to be the most reflective types, simply continue to "do as they are told or expected" (to the extent that they sometimes immediately become rip-off teacher trainers, peddling those training materials that they have only just finished studying and filed away!), and can thus fail to develop much professionally (and by that, I mean ultimately as individuals with unique contributions to make).

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=64154

[naturegirl321]

I don't think that you have a high likelihood of passing. It's just that these types of courses are VERY stressful, so you'll have to be mentally prepared for that.

[fluffyhamster]

Naturegirl321, you mean failing, right?

[Justin Trullinger]

yeah, she meant failing.


If you put in the work, and are responsive to trainer feedback, you'll be fine.


Best,
Justin

[Mike_2007]

If you try your best and fail, then teaching's probably not for you anyway. Similarly, if you find the course very stressful (planning, standing up in front of people, and so on) then maybe you're going to find teaching similarly stressful.

[Teejay]

No one failed in my batch.

You fail if you got lots of absences or if you fail to carry on.

[Nabby Adams]

Don't worry OP. When I did my course I too was worried, but I needn't have been. My experience in the UK was that TESOL courses are market driven; in that I mean that courses advertise their "98% pass rate" and other such claims. It is NOT in the course provider's interest to fail you.
Actually I remember being none to happy about how easy it was to pass. To the extent that a grammar test was given out a second time to those who failed it. THE SAME TEST. But get this.....a couple still failed it and it was given out a THIRD time. I passed the test first time and I know how bad my grammar be.

[Anda]

In Australia such courses only have a few who fail but a pass is regarded as a fail if going for a job in Australia, that is the catch and that is what most get.

The other catch is that the grammar test only counted for 10% of the mark for the certificate I did. I found out that they based the rest of their marks for the other units off the grammar mark.

I regard the certificate as a handy piece of expensive toilet paper full stop. But it is worth the money when job hunting. These days however many want two or more years teaching experience plus the toilet paper along with contact references for the better jobs. This doesn't mean that you can't be at the right place at the right time however and land a good job with just a bachelor�s degree.

[Madame J]

Heh, thank you so much. All your comments have very much put my mind at ease!

I'm fairly sure I CAN do a good teaching job-I have a few months' worth of positive teaching experience in Thailand to prove that to myself. In response to one of the posts here, I am actually a natural shrinking violet type person (well, in some situations), but I find in the classroom I can discard that part of my personality quite easily.

Oh, and I was going to ask if was possible to retake sections of the course if I did fail certain parts, so that's excellent to know.

[nickpellatt]

Im doing my CELTA TESOL course now.....today was day 5 of the first week.

It has been enjoyable....but there is quite a high workload....and this really impacts on your time.

There is a hell of a lot of work to come too....Im a bit worried

This weekend I am looking forward to writing two reports, preparing to interview a student 1-1 for around an hour on monday for an assignment.

And I am also going to have to start on an assignment on 3rd conditionals. This is my language awareness assignment....so Im currently browsing for info!

Added to that I have to prepare my next lesson plan....this seems to take some time as there are a number of forms that need to accompany this. (todays lesson missed my aims by a mile!)

And I also have been told to review a variety of tenses!

[Madame J]

[nickpellatt]

I am/have been teaching without a degree yes.

I have worked for almost two years in China. In Hainan province, which is as far away from Beijing/Shanghai as you can get.......in terms of modern, and also in terms of stricter visa regulations.

How it has changed over the summer I dont know though.

In addition to the above...I have now also worked for two summer schools, again teaching......this is my 'job' now.....and Im currently getting the qualifications to allow me to continue doing it, and give me more choice, scope, and of course....knowledge for the future.

Im having a year out of travel now to continue my studies with the OU, aiming for a BA.....and will be doing volunteer teaching with a local charity to keep my hand in, and improve the teaching profile.

Im sure there are problems being non-degree'd in China.....I havent seen them.

My old housemate has no qualifications at all....and started work when I did....he has since moved to Yangshou and has another job......I also have a young friend who I worked with in the UK....he is also working in China without a degree.

It can be done.

The TEFL course does seem to have a fairly large workload....most of the work is fun and/or interesting....so that kinda makes it better.

[carl_00]

Hey. Just wanted to butt into the conversation

Madame J have you decided where you're going to do your CELTA yet? I was originally going to do a TEFL certificate in China but after reading about the 'workload' I may just stay at home and do the course, saves running into any problems that may occur during the 4-weeks abroad.

Also you mentioned that being in the classroom enables you to 'shake off' your shrinking violet persona, I hope the same can apply to me too I absolutely dread doing the standing up thing...but I do believe it is something which can be overcome...hopefully

Also regarding the grammar, could anyone recommend some good study books, i.e. grammar for the teacher etc.

[fluffyhamster]

Some books for studying grammar as it relates to ESL/EFL:
-Martin Parrott, Grammar for English Language Teachers (solid but somewhat dull)
-Raymond Murphy, English Grammar in Use series, or Swan & Walter's The Good Grammar Book (more basic) and How English Works (more advanced) (these are all more for students, but a quick way - quicker in the short run than say Parrott above - for a teacher to become familiar with the main points and/or troublespots; Americans tend to be more familiar with and therefore swear by Azar's similar range)
-Geoffrey Leech et al, English Grammar for Today (reasonably informal intro to the formalities of the Quirk stable of grammars), or maybe David Crystal's Making Sense of English Grammar

Books that go into greater discursive detail, with implicatons if not detailed suggestions for pedagogy:
-Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman, The Grammar Book 2nd Edition (you could also study grammar from this, but it is appreciably larger, more detailed and therefore somewhat more daunting than even the Parrott! But offsetting this, it is the more attractive and interesting of the two books, and would serve as a useful reference grammar for years into a TESL/TEFL career)
> http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=687740#687740
-George Yule, Explaining English Grammar (complements but can't quite replace CM & LF above)
-Michael Lewis, The English Verb (probably the most useful book on the subject)

Or you could disregard all of the above and just get a quick reference guide such as Michael Swan's Practical English Usage (A-Z overview of main grammar and usage problems for foreign learners), Ronald Carter & Michael McCarthy's The Cambridge Grammar of English (a bit sprawling, but interesting, with good treatment of spoken English, and comes complete with a handy CD-ROM version of the book which includes audio of every example); or how about an actual grammar such as *John Eastwood*'s The Oxford Guide to English Grammar (I really like this book, similar style to the Swan, and with a very detailed index, chapter overviews etc) or the COBUILD English Grammar, either of which can be used not only for quick reference regarding selected points, but are comprehensive and organized/"overarching" enough to enable one to begin to appreciate the language as a meaningful, systematic whole.
> http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=2288