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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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 Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Bitter teachers |
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There are plenty of bitter teachers on this forum. You complain about atleast one of the following things:
- "Stupid" students (Way to go, teacher!)
- Low salaries
- Crap employers
- Other teachers (Your English sucks! You're unqualified! I'm better than you!)
Why are you teachers? Why do you work in a field that you don't even like? |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
- "Stupid" students (Way to go, teacher!)
- Low salaries
- Crap employers
- Other teachers (Your English sucks! You're unqualified! I'm better than you |
Since the list contains some very commonplace factors that spoil the working environment for many FT's (factors that destroy many an attempt to create professional workplaces) - it would be stupid - and indeed unprofessional - not to complain 
What do you expect FT's to do - just put up in silence with poor working conditions - and let others come out here with no warning.
I praise all those posters who still battle on - and who write about the true realities of China FT work. Maybe one of the reasons they stay at their work is that don't want to buckle under. Good on ya guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Why are you teachers? |
Excellent post! Last semester when my mill offered to increase my wage, I reminded them that teachers prefer static, unevolving, and never-likely-to-ever-improve work conditions.
So instead of more RMB, I asked for hammers for all FTs in China. Broken fingers instead of attempts at discussing the system, and thus, perhaps, making some small improvements.
Being a teacher is all about being meek, quiet and never wondering how or why. That's what Master Wang tells me everyday! And he's right because I'm a good tee-cha! |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Bitter teachers |
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| theincredibleegg wrote: |
| You complain about atleast one of the following things |
Complaining on forums such as this is one of the few outlets FTs in China have.
At least in our home countries we can go on strike, have students suspended, tell our employers what we think without getting the sack etc.
That's the difference between democracies and the PRC. All power to China FTs. |
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loboman
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Despite all my rage I'm still just a rat in a cage...
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Maybe unlike Chinese teachers we should just sit back and accept the abuse and not at all care about our students education?
And allow ourselves to be openly cheating and just assume that it is part of working in China?
I never had stupid students but I have had many many lazy and unmotivated students.
Yep the Chinese want to pay as low as they can for a teacher. No question there.
Indeed some of the "teachers" I have met in China are not qualified to work as a greeter in Wal-Mart. Many of them are running away from something at home -The Law, ex-wives, whatever it is - to come to China and drink their troubles away. Many many misfits wind up in China and Asia. Again, no mystery there.
| Quote: |
| There are plenty of bitter teachers on this forum. |
Let's see you get screwed so many times by your employer in so many ways - for many fts but not all - so bitterness?
"I caught myself saying this to someone at a business meeting in China one day: "I'm going to step outside for a breath of fresh air..."
I never smoked a day in my life - I am sure I will get lung cancer from my brief stay in China. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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shanshan
| Quote: |
| Excellent post! Last semester when my mill offered to increase my wage, I reminded them that teachers prefer static, unevolving, and never-likely-to-ever-improve work conditions |
 I felt that after putting such a wonderful and expensive Olympics show, the least I could do is take a pay cut for more hours!
Don't believe?
School I was at wanted me to work for four more hours a week in a new contract. benefit? 400 yuan a more per hour, (sorry, 400/month!) which after taxes, may have netted me 15 yuan per hour. They were incredulous that i would turn down this fine offer. "we thought you liked the school" "why with foreigners does everything have to be about money" "why can't you just be happy and not complain about the contract" "It's much more then many other teachers"
So the question was
| Quote: |
| Why are you teachers? Why do you work in a field that you don't even like? |
Don't see how this possibly relates to saying this is a jackass offer that only another laowai who can't speak the language awould accept ( or can't get a good job in their home country)
that salary offer sucked, the employer was crap (actually the waishiban office worker who insisted I take that offer no longer works at the school)
Liked the students, even though some are lazy.
Last edited by arioch36 on Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"Stupid" students (Way to go, teacher!)
- Low salaries
- Crap employers
- Other teachers (Your English sucks! You're unqualified! I'm better than you!)
Why are you teachers? Why do you work in a field that you don't even like? |
forgive me, but i don't feel you teach in china. and, the way you've put it is just like you feel bitter about something yourself.
there're many hard working teachers working for those "cr*p employers". why are they working for such employers is that either they haven't known prior to arrival on the job or have their own attachments/responsibilities in the city and few choices to search/travel around.
regarding "stupid students" as you've put it, there're many poor quality of students that teachers have to put up with just because parents want their kids to learn a language kids do not really like. some fts have to prepare young chinese for abroad studies and some of those young chinese are/can be really frustrating in the classrooms. yes, we are teachers and have got to exercise all the patience we have in order to somehow prepare such students to travel abroad.
cheers and beers to our OP who also sounds as bitter as we do  |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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You're being a bit ironic  ,but yeah,people need to blow off steam. Also, isn't this one of the things to do among the youth today - "bait","Flame"...etc.. ? |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| Quote: |
"Stupid" students (Way to go, teacher!)
- Low salaries
- Crap employers
- Other teachers (Your English sucks! You're unqualified! I'm better than you!)
Why are you teachers? Why do you work in a field that you don't even like? |
forgive me, but i don't feel you teach in china. and, the way you've put it is just like you feel bitter about something yourself.
there're many hard working teachers working for those "cr*p employers". why are they working for such employers is that either they haven't known prior to arrival on the job or have their own attachments/responsibilities in the city and few choices to search/travel around.
regarding "stupid students" as you've put it, there're many poor quality of students that teachers have to put up with just because parents want their kids to learn a language kids do not really like. some fts have to prepare young chinese for abroad studies and some of those young chinese are/can be really frustrating in the classrooms. yes, we are teachers and have got to exercise all the patience we have in order to somehow prepare such students to travel abroad.
cheers and beers to our OP who also sounds as bitter as we do |
I check this forum once in a while and everytime i read it, there's always negative people here. You got screwed over by your employer? Fine, write about it. People need to know what to watch out for. But it shouldn't go through every post and be the overall spirit of your life (and this fourm).
Maybe i've been lucky and haven't seen reality yet. I don't know. I've been here for 1 year. I've never been cheated on my salary, visa or accomodation. My salary is above FT-average, my visa is legal and my accomodation is a spacy two room apartment. I don't live as well as i did as a teacher back home, but yet, it's pretty ok.
Again, regarding troublesome students. Have you tried working with difficult students in the west? This is pretty easy. The "only" difficulties in classroom management here are (1) language barrier and (2) lack of formal authority (we don't work with grades etc).
I'm not telling anyone to accept being treated like shit. Without labour unions, you have to stick up for yourself. But again, is it really THAT bad? |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Have you tried working with difficult students in the west? |
In the "west" (for me, USA), dealing with difficult kids is still challenging but at least most schools have a support system to help you out. There is of course the school principal to send that troublesome kid. There are school counselors, there are those that actually have a degree in dealing with learning disabled or kids with behavior disorders usually right in the school and sometimes right in your classroom. There are definite procedures to follow for those kids that simply don't want to do their work or act up in class or play the part of "schoolyard bully", from slight punishments to after school detention halls to even expulsion from the school for a day or week or the rest of the school year depending on the severity of the action. Not being able to deal with a less-than-stellar child doesn't always mean one is a bad teacher. Naturally, having and maintaining a good classroom management skill with certain known rewards and punishments established can work miracles.
In China, we FTs have precious little control over the students and their behaviors. We can't punish them (esp. if the child is in a private school - - oh no! Mom and Dad will yank them from the school - - there go the profits!); talking to school leaders is a farce, and the Chinese teachers are too scared or bored or lazy themselves to care too much about it to help you out. When I came to my school, one of the first things I asked was, "What kind of discipline procedures do you have?" The response was, "We don't have any bad students." 
So, to sum up: USA - - difficult or hard to manage students: support system and chains of command and proper procedures to follow to try and get things worked out. China - - difficult or hard to manage students: ignore it and things will work out eventually.  |
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brsmith15
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1142
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Bit**ing and complaining seems to be something of a universal trait, and there are two ways to look at it.
When I was a company commander in Vietnam, those of us in charge of troops used to say many times that if they weren't complaining then we should be very, very watchful and attentive. If they were dead (ooops!) quiet, we worried. kind of like what neighbors had to say about the guy who grabbed an UZI and mowed down a dozen kindergardeners: "He was such a quiet person."
On the other hand, I've often told chronic whiners in the past who moan and bewail their miserable jobs: "Either quit or shut up!"
I'm reminded of the story of Epaminondas who was a successful Greek general. His military prowess earned him a few enemies and so when he returned from the wars, those in power figured they'd humiliate him by making him head of garbage and sanitation. He allegedly said, "If the job will not bring honor to me, then I will bring honor to the job." He went on to build sewer and dsposal systems that helped in curing disease.
OR... how about your attitude? There's a wonderful little story about some university psych profs who wanted to study optimism vs. pessimism. So, they searched around and found two young boys: one very optimistic and one very pessimistic. They put the pessimist in a room filled with the most wonderful toys and computer games whereas the optimist was thrown into a room filled to shoulder-height with fresh, and smelly, horse dung. Two hours later, the researchers opened the doors.
In the room that had had the toys, the kid had broken them all and was whining that he had nothing to do and that everyone was forever unkind to him. When they looked into the other room, there was this young guy tossing all the dung in the air and laughing. When they asked him why he was behaving the way he was, he replied, "With all this horsesh&t, there has to be a horse in here somewhere!" |
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eddy-cool
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I am new to a college set up just two years ago, having moved here after a stint of several years at another place.
I tend to bit.ch quite a bit but I hold that my complaints normally are justified; the truth is that I also share my positive impressions.
And my new job is one of my most pleasant experiences. All colleagues are outgoing, our students are well-behaved and respectful. Classes are limited to 30 students.
It's just struck me that maybe I have been lucky this time because this is a new school (privately-owned but affiliated with one of the nation's leading universities), and they haven't had enough bad experiences with laowai teachers. Informally I heard this school had to dismiss a foreign teacher last year because of his inappropriate attitude towards female students, but we still get treated very well.
Maybe FTs in other schools that have longer histories of employing laowai teachers are perceived with more suspicion based on sad, bad experiences. |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Have you tried working with difficult students in the west? |
In the "west" (for me, USA), dealing with difficult kids is still challenging but at least most schools have a support system to help you out. There is of course the school principal to send that troublesome kid. There are school counselors, there are those that actually have a degree in dealing with learning disabled or kids with behavior disorders usually right in the school and sometimes right in your classroom. There are definite procedures to follow for those kids that simply don't want to do their work or act up in class or play the part of "schoolyard bully", from slight punishments to after school detention halls to even expulsion from the school for a day or week or the rest of the school year depending on the severity of the action. Not being able to deal with a less-than-stellar child doesn't always mean one is a bad teacher. Naturally, having and maintaining a good classroom management skill with certain known rewards and punishments established can work miracles.
In China, we FTs have precious little control over the students and their behaviors. We can't punish them (esp. if the child is in a private school - - oh no! Mom and Dad will yank them from the school - - there go the profits!); talking to school leaders is a farce, and the Chinese teachers are too scared or bored or lazy themselves to care too much about it to help you out. When I came to my school, one of the first things I asked was, "What kind of discipline procedures do you have?" The response was, "We don't have any bad students."
So, to sum up: USA - - difficult or hard to manage students: support system and chains of command and proper procedures to follow to try and get things worked out. China - - difficult or hard to manage students: ignore it and things will work out eventually. |
Well, yes it is true that we have procedures in the west (Sweden) for dealing with difficult students. Add social services to the list.
I've been asking students about why everyone is "regular" classes. The response i got was: "Because they fear the teacher. They pretend that they study."
I have, like others here, problems with classroom management. It is very hard to manage a class in China when you don't have a language in common or have formal authority. It doesn't make things easier when there's no definite plan for picking up weak students. So you end up with a bunch of kids whose English level ranges from 0 to 10. Individualized education, eh?
Back to my point: Eventhough i'm having troubles aswell, things aren't THAT bad. With regards to the framework that I (and presumably you) work in, students do learn and there is a clear learning process to feel good about. |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Um |
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Well I just got through my one month trail period where I'm working at a middle school. It's been a hard month as even sending students out of the class is not on. I've had one class from hell that run riot and are lazy in regard to study. I'm afraid that I put the screws on from day one to get the kids to study. What I call a good class but, looks like a madhouse from someone looking in from outside. I like controlled Chaos where the kids are doing everything I want but are having fun.
Well today only one kid from my class from hell tried not doing the exercise I gave out. He thought that after writing one word that he had done his share. Um, I don�t think he�ll try it again however. So the job is turning out okay but it�s a lot of work as the way I teach requires four pages or more of handouts per lesson. So prepping is time consuming but I�m lucky as one of the Chinese teachers is doing some translating for me which is a big help.
I think that you have to accept a country for what it is to a fair extent or get out if you can�t hack it. China is not what I�d call an easy country for someone starting out into ESL teaching if one is working away from the big cities. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote of the OP:
"Stupid" students (Way to go, teacher!)
- Low salaries
- Crap employers
- Other teachers (Your English sucks! You're unqualified! I'm better than you!)
Why are you teachers? Why do you work in a field that you don't even like?
my reply:
forgive me, but i don't feel you teach in china. and, the way you've put it is just like you feel bitter about something yourself.
there're many hard working teachers working for those "cr*p employers". why are they working for such employers is that either they haven't known prior to arrival on the job or have their own attachments/responsibilities in the city and few choices to search/travel around.
regarding "stupid students" as you've put it, there're many poor quality of students that teachers have to put up with just because parents want their kids to learn a language kids do not really like. some fts have to prepare young chinese for abroad studies and some of those young chinese are/can be really frustrating in the classrooms. yes, we are teachers and have got to exercise all the patience we have in order to somehow prepare such students to travel abroad.
cheers and beers to our OP who also sounds as bitter as we do
theincredibleegg wrote:
I check this forum once in a while and everytime i read it, there's always negative people here. You got screwed over by your employer? Fine, write about it. People need to know what to watch out for. But it shouldn't go through every post and be the overall spirit of your life (and this fourm).
Maybe i've been lucky and haven't seen reality yet. I don't know. I've been here for 1 year. I've never been cheated on my salary, visa or accomodation. My salary is above FT-average, my visa is legal and my accomodation is a spacy two room apartment. I don't live as well as i did as a teacher back home, but yet, it's pretty ok.
Again, regarding troublesome students. Have you tried working with difficult students in the west? This is pretty easy. The "only" difficulties in classroom management here are (1) language barrier and (2) lack of formal authority (we don't work with grades etc).
I'm not telling anyone to accept being treated like shit. Without labour unions, you have to stick up for yourself. But again, is it really THAT bad? |
yes, it sounds like you've been lucky.
i've got to prepare a few chinese high school grads for abroad unis every year. there's an outrageously high precentage of those that couldn't get to their chinese unis and so they've chosen my center and its courses. we also assist in choosing/suggesting western unis for them as well as in the process of their student visas applications. chinese parents love the idea and the fact that there's a help for their kids after all. so much for the "only difficulty" in our classrooms when students begin relying on their parents money and the chinese administrations' determination to get them abroad...with all due respect, yes, you've been in china for too short time and've yet to experience the culture
on topic of salaries, china's economy has grown since 2000 so much although fts salaries are the same as it looks. private centers in mid sized towns offer just about the same 5000-5,500 monthly as in 2000. however, some chinese employees' incomes've risen and then there's this inflation that i see on daily basis when i go shopping. clearly, employers are unwilling to raise fts income and there is/will be no direction from the central government to do so ever on this one. who cares when we're preparing the new chinese generation to take over our posts anyway.
on topic of fts in china, i've seen all kinds, although my observation is that the better group of fts is gone. they've left with the changing trend in this lovely country. some employers've even begun fingerprinting their fts so are we surprised or displeased to see the amateurs in teacher offices 
cheers and beers to our experiences as well as opinions on |
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