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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| It surprises me that you write that the better groups of FTs is gone.Wouldn't development in China attract more professionals? |
i am surprised you're surprised. 
this "development" that you're talking about is coming with a very chinese recipe and many of fts are just unfamiliar with the chinese kitchen. in the kitchen, they're expected to be the dishwashers that jump into "monkey suits" when cameras come 
now, what pros are you talking about that china might attract 
cheers and beers to all those pros that've been attracted by this fine development |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
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| It surprises me that you write that the better groups of FTs is gone.Wouldn't development in China attract more professionals? |
i am surprised you're surprised.
this "development" that you're talking about is coming with a very chinese recipe and many of fts are just unfamiliar with the chinese kitchen. in the kitchen, they're expected to be the dishwashers that jump into "monkey suits" when cameras come
now, what pros are you talking about that china might attract
cheers and beers to all those pros that've been attracted by this fine development |
Cheers and beeeers,
Besides good RMB (ironically, i've been hearing the salaries are decreasing):
I have an unsupported belief that Chinese educational development will make better kitchens. Chinese education might finally realize that the language of the FT doesn't miraculously copy itself to students. There needs to be other stuff aswell: An educational organization; a certain degree of autonomy from which the FT can operate etc. Perhaps, maybe, anytime soon, there will be a sun on the horizon.
Ok, there is a lot of "might", "if" and "would" in this post. I just can't digest the belief that a developing country can't (or will not) afford to produce educated principals, who have an idea on how organize a school (and the FT-position in it). |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| I have an unsupported belief that Chinese educational development will make better kitchens. Chinese education might finally realize that the language of the FT doesn't miraculously copy itself to students. There needs to be other stuff aswell: An educational organization; a certain degree of autonomy from which the FT can operate etc. Perhaps, maybe, anytime soon, there will be a sun on the horizon. |
All well and fine if the FT was used to teach English - but it could be that the majority of FT's are also brought over here for another, more important, purpose - to generate business and profit. Many employers are satisfied if your looks attract fee-paying custom - any forms of teaching which modify method to better classroom result - especially if they crave investment (even tiny amounts of money) - may be looked upon as irritating, needlessly costly and unnecessary. In such a scenario - the employer of course prefers a teacher who pleases the Chinese class with their looks and can entertain over the teacher's pedagogical skill and experience levels.
Another source of bitterness for Ft's who really wants to make something of their jobs, and even one that could make the job more difficult for those who focus on taking it easy  |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have an unsupported belief that Chinese educational development will make better kitchens. Chinese education might finally realize that the language of the FT doesn't miraculously copy itself to students. There needs to be other stuff aswell: An educational organization; a certain degree of autonomy from which the FT can operate etc. Perhaps, maybe, anytime soon, there will be a sun on the horizon. |
All well and fine if the FT was used to teach English - but it could be that the majority of FT's are also brought over here for another, more important, purpose - to generate business and profit. Many employers are satisfied if your looks attract fee-paying custom - any forms of teaching which modify method to better classroom result - especially if they crave investment (even tiny amounts of money) - may be looked upon as irritating, needlessly costly and unnecessary. In such a scenario - the employer of course prefers a teacher who pleases the Chinese class with their looks and can entertain over the teacher's pedagogical skill and experience levels.
Another source of bitterness for Ft's who really wants to make something of their jobs, and even one that could make the job more difficult for those who focus on taking it easy |
Vikuk, the day i grow bitter, i will print a t-shirt saying: It's all because of Vikuk
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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ohh, how funny..and, we've managed to end this bitterness in china
cheers and beers to all fts in china |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Vikuk, the day i grow bitter, i will print a t-shirt saying: It's all because of Vikuk |
Egg - since I have nothing to do with you or your job - I don't think that would be a very appropriate slogan.
So, with regard to the thread topic, if you're thinking of taking the discussion further, I think your posts would be more meaningful if you tackled some of the points I've raised.
With that in mind, going back to my point about the main role of the FT in Chinese education - how much do you feel the job of teacher dominates over the role of cash-cow (cash-cow = income generated through customers paying for service of a FT). How much emphasis, by your employer, is placed on good teaching method over just pleasing the customer - have you ever been told you have to do something because that�s what the customer wants. Have you ever been told that it�s not a good idea to try out new method - because customers might not like it.
The situation gets rather pitiful when teaching small children - situation where the kids have to memorise meaningless sentences and songs (at least almost meaningless in terms of good EFL teaching) � because, when they spew all these sounds up, it then looks like they've been learning English - and that's what mummy and daddy like.
I think a lot of FT's start to get tired and then a little bitter in these kind of China EFL scenarios |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
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| Vikuk, the day i grow bitter, i will print a t-shirt saying: It's all because of Vikuk |
Egg - since I have nothing to do with you or your job - I don't think that would be a very appropriate slogan.
So, with regard to the thread topic, if you're thinking of taking the discussion further, I think your posts would be more meaningful if you tackled some of the points I've raised.
With that in mind, going back to my point about the main role of the FT in Chinese education - how much do you feel the job of teacher dominates over the role of cash-cow (cash-cow = income generated through customers paying for service of a FT). How much emphasis, by your employer, is placed on good teaching method over just pleasing the customer - have you ever been told you have to do something because that�s what the customer wants. Have you ever been told that it�s not a good idea to try out new method - because customers might not like it.
The situation gets rather pitiful when teaching small children - situation where the kids have to memorise meaningless sentences and songs (at least almost meaningless in terms of good EFL teaching) � because, when they spew all these sounds up, it then looks like they've been learning English - and that's what mummy and daddy like.
I think a lot of FT's start to get tired and then a little bitter in these kind of China EFL scenarios |
I guess it's not an obligation to have a sense of humour.
No, noone has asked me to change my teaching to satisfy "customers" or parents. |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
ohh, how funny..and, we've managed to end this bitterness in china
cheers and beers to all fts in china |
You're making me bitter... |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| No, noone has asked me to change my teaching to satisfy "customers" or parents. |
Egg - I feel your China experience may differ from that other FT's. The whole concept of FT as dancing monkey evolves around giving the customer something they want, rather than teachers being allowed to give what they feel is best. That's why the typical non-teacher qualified FT's are often a hit at this job - since they often fall back on skills that are more focused on entertaining and pleasing rather than well-planed teaching. Maybe some are never asked to changed, because they play the part of crowd pleaser right from the very beginning |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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there's plenty of reason to be bitter in these jobs. only those who experience the conditions that lead to that bitterness can conclude whether or not their feelings are justified.
some will get bitter, quit and leave right away. others will try to stick it out and hope things change, and when they dont change, that crowd will also pack up for greener pastures, either back home or in another country.
still others who become bitter will hang around and find that once you know the ropes in this game, that things can get better, and when they do, much of the bitterness disappears. but getting to that stage can take many months, a few years even, and lot of stress and aggravation.
a lot of good comments above, which shows the amount of china experience that's on this board. bitter or not, its really a valuable resource for the newcomer to china. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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i sure agree with the last sentence as well as with some parts from the post above. however, from bitter to better takes a bit longer than that. further more, it's not about learning or as you say "knowing the ropes" but it's about how willing/desperate one is to compromise with/tolerate the chinese nature (employers and their staff).
cheers and beers to better from bitter as well as cheers and beers to our forums that open some of those eyes around and everywhere |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
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| No, noone has asked me to change my teaching to satisfy "customers" or parents. |
Egg - I feel your China experience may differ from that other FT's. The whole concept of FT as dancing monkey evolves around giving the customer something they want, rather than teachers being allowed to give what they feel is best. That's why the typical non-teacher qualified FT's are often a hit at this job - since they often fall back on skills that are more focused on entertaining and pleasing rather than well-planed teaching. Maybe some are never asked to changed, because they play the part of crowd pleaser right from the very beginning |
No, it's not how i survive. I spent five years at a university to become a teacher. I never thought of myself as a future entertainer when i enrolled at the teacher academy. |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
there's plenty of reason to be bitter in these jobs. only those who experience the conditions that lead to that bitterness can conclude whether or not their feelings are justified.
some will get bitter, quit and leave right away. others will try to stick it out and hope things change, and when they dont change, that crowd will also pack up for greener pastures, either back home or in another country.
still others who become bitter will hang around and find that once you know the ropes in this game, that things can get better, and when they do, much of the bitterness disappears. but getting to that stage can take many months, a few years even, and lot of stress and aggravation.
a lot of good comments above, which shows the amount of china experience that's on this board. bitter or not, its really a valuable resource for the newcomer to china. |
Well-stated. I would however want to put some extra emphasis on your avatar. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| No, it's not how i survive. I spent five years at a university to become a teacher. I never thought of myself as a future entertainer when i enrolled at the teacher academy. |
Well if you did go through a teacher's traning education - then I'm sure the name of John Dewey crept up somewhere - which may have resulted in a discusion or two on the concept of edutainment.
The good teacher needs to be an entertainer of sorts - to promote and hold the interest and attention of their class. However that role has to be ballanced with the role of educator. Nothing wrong with entertaining a class as long as that class are learning the desired subject matter. But to entertain just to keep the class happy - that's a whole other kettle of fish
In China - some FT's are just expected to entertain. Okay for some - a bind for others!!!! Being an entertainer can be darn hard work - especially if your tired class are bored, because they can't understand you, and just wants to go home. This is a reality for some FT's - and can lead to feelings that could be described as being bitter. |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Whatever i wrote in this thread -- I take it back. All of it. |
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