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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| Well, given that the Russians already have a large number of ethnic minorities living under their rule, and they discriminate against them, then I don't think they have that right. |
This is an excellent argument against the formation of large nations.
I think we'd probably both agree that big business and big government are not, in general, good things, and both are most effective and sensitive to their constituents when they are small. They also tend to be more respectful to and of foreigners. The larger they are, the less they represent you or give a darn about you. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| Well, given that the Russians already have a large number of ethnic minorities living under their rule, and they discriminate against them, then I don't think they have that right. |
This is an excellent argument against the formation of large nations.
I think we'd probably both agree that big business and big government are not, in general, good things, and both are most effective and sensitive to their constituents when they are small. They also tend to be more respectful to and of foreigners. The larger they are, the less they represent you or give a darn about you. |
Sorry but that's just a theory. Are you sure that small countries are more respectful to foreigners? I live in a small country and I have cause to wonder. |
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maccamlc
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I still find it funny, that in Russia, Ukraine, etc. when talking about a black person, that certain word, we shall not speak, is always used .... and is the normal and acceptable word!
I would hate to imagine what would happen to a Russian person who said that in America 
But .... different country, different culture, different attitude.
The people I know are just as against Azeris, Tajiks, everyone! |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| rusmeister wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| Well, given that the Russians already have a large number of ethnic minorities living under their rule, and they discriminate against them, then I don't think they have that right. |
This is an excellent argument against the formation of large nations.
I think we'd probably both agree that big business and big government are not, in general, good things, and both are most effective and sensitive to their constituents when they are small. They also tend to be more respectful to and of foreigners. The larger they are, the less they represent you or give a darn about you. |
Sorry but that's just a theory. Are you sure that small countries are more respectful to foreigners? I live in a small country and I have cause to wonder. |
Note that I said, "tend". Of course you can find exceptions. At the very least there is no assumption of superiority that membership in a large nation/empire tends to confer. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| rusmeister wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| Well, given that the Russians already have a large number of ethnic minorities living under their rule, and they discriminate against them, then I don't think they have that right. |
This is an excellent argument against the formation of large nations.
I think we'd probably both agree that big business and big government are not, in general, good things, and both are most effective and sensitive to their constituents when they are small. They also tend to be more respectful to and of foreigners. The larger they are, the less they represent you or give a darn about you. |
Sorry but that's just a theory. Are you sure that small countries are more respectful to foreigners? I live in a small country and I have cause to wonder. |
Note that I said, "tend". Of course you can find exceptions. At the very least there is no assumption of superiority that membership in a large nation/empire tends to confer. |
In the UK, Rusmeister, who are you trying to kid? As a Canadian comedian said about Brits criticising the American attitude of owning the world, 'well, we know where they got that from!" Where do you think the virulent opposition in England to more European Union integration comes from? |
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Travel Zen
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| What are all of the Asians doing in Russia? Are they hiding in fear in their homes? Are they being hunted in the streets? |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Look, if you want to persuade yourself that it's a good idea to go, then go. You've been the one showing us the horror videos, so you must decide how much you fancy the odds. Remember also that there are blacks and asians who at least know their way around and there are visitors (of whatever colour) who can't be streetwise in a new country. If you are less favoured in terms of race in Russia and are unfamiliar with what is safe, then you are are more likely to have problems. Hopefully you won't, but... |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
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It's one thing to be an armchair general and know what goes on all over the world without ever going there. It's quite another to actually go and experience it for yourself.
But when you do go there you usually discover that the media exaggerated what was beneficial for their business.
In any event, talking knowingly about what things are like in a place you haven't been yourself, and then disdaining the words of those who have, is unwise. |
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Travel Zen
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Guys I understand what you are saying. I'm acting like Geraldo Rivera and being sensationalist. I know
I'm really addressing the dudes who are snide with their comments. Most of you seem to really like your country and are giving straight info on it. Very even keeled.
Of course, I am going to Moscow and St. Petersburg. I am a traveller and its in my blood to see all the places and things that interest me.
I love Russian history and even the lay of the land looks good...from my armchair. I'm just really shocked about the attitudes of the people and government. But why should I be shocked about people. We are all human. Thanks for your comments so far.... |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Travel Zen wrote: |
Guys I understand what you are saying. I'm acting like Geraldo Rivera and being sensationalist. I know
I'm really addressing the dudes who are snide with their comments. Most of you seem to really like your country and are giving straight info on it. Very even keeled.
Of course, I am going to Moscow and St. Petersburg. I am a traveller and its in my blood to see all the places and things that interest me.
I love Russian history and even the lay of the land looks good...from my armchair. I'm just really shocked about the attitudes of the people and government. But why should I be shocked about people. We are all human. Thanks for your comments so far.... |
One more thing, TZ - there are a lot of people who DON'T have those attitudes. I can tell you about a couple of girls that I know, one of whom I am teaching now (she just started 1st year with me - the 7 year olds) who obviously have/had a black father, but they do well enough in our playground/courtyard, and in the class. I've never heard a single comment about the color of their skin in any other than purely identification mode ("Which one's Masha?" "The dark one over there.")
So yes, there are bigots, but there are also ordinary decent people. To coin a line from a favorite writer, "There is also love in the world". |
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texastmblwd69
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| maccamlc wrote: |
I still find it funny, that in Russia, Ukraine, etc. when talking about a black person, that certain word, we shall not speak, is always used .... and is the normal and acceptable word!
I would hate to imagine what would happen to a Russian person who said that in America
But .... different country, different culture, different attitude.
The people I know are just as against Azeris, Tajiks, everyone! |
The word in question is негр (nYE-gr) and is simply a loan word meaning "negro." Russia lacks America's history of racial conflict (though they have some of their own). Because of this, негр is simply he word for a black person and nothing derogative is implied or should be inferred. That said, as a Russian-speaking American, I virtually never use the word with anyone who has even a rudimentary grasp of English for fear that someone will hear the similarity and take offense. |
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canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds more like ныгр to me which is rather removed from негро. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
| Sounds more like ныгр to me which is rather removed from негро. |
CT, in most cases, that's probably your imagination, and where it's not, it's where people who have heard the references in Hollywood and are trying to imitate our pronunciation of our word. The word 'negro' in Russian is still just that. (Of course there are jerks that are proud to be bigots.)
Texast makes a good general point. |
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canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| People are getting the word from movies and rap music. In fact I have had students ask me why it's OK for black people to use the N-word but not white people. They know what they are talking about. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Of course they are. (Agreed). It just looks like you're broad-brushing most or all Russians as using it, and I disagree - although I would agree that there may be such a trend on the part of the young people who listen to that cr**. Whenever I hear that stuff, all I hear is orcs. Wonder what Tolkien would say? |
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