Job Discussion Forums

phobic 888 · Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 17

would it be possible for me to land a decent job anywhere in china? i do have experience teaching and have a tesol cert but have no ba or anything like that. a few of my friends are already working there but of course they have better schooling qualifications than me. secondly would anybody be able to add any schools to look into. i am planning on going somewhere in january i just have not decided where.

Zorak03 · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:05 am Post subject:

Hello, landing a job will be no problem at all. There is a shortage of FT's in China now (at least in Guangzhou). Now getting the Z visa and Residence Permit may be a problem. See my thread about Z visas.. However, few teachers, in Guangzhou, have Z visas anyways.

jamesmollo · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 276 Location: jilin china

Hi there.
I've worked here for three years without a degree in Jiang su and jilin provinces. It may be a problem in places like shanghai or beijing? It really depends on your employer's ability to obtain a work permit. I can PM you some schools in the areas where I have worked.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

James, please specify if you on a z-visa, P, all of that.. I know Ft's in Henan who have worked legally with only a 3 year degree, no experience. It is on all of the whim of the "SAFEA" "WAISHIBAN" Educational Bureau .. or who is doing the processing on that day.

Also, it does depend on your country of origin

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

Mister Al · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 840 Location: In there

Lorean · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 476 Location: Beijing

Is working on an L or F still doable?

To my knowledge, no one has been able to get anything more than a double-entry 30-day visas since the Olympics.

Zorak03 · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:19 am Post subject:

Agents can now get 6 month multi-entry F and L visas, so no problem. As I said in the other thread, the PSB didnt seem to care that we were teaching on F visas.

jamesmollo · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 276 Location: jilin china

I've always had legal paperwork, i.e residence permit and foreign expert certificate. I came back in june on a z-visa and had it changed without any problems. Mind you, I had worked here for nearly three years by then. And the school I work for is a private one with more than 10,000 students - operating 10 years so have lots of guanxi. It's all about status/relationships/power with this people can do whatever they like. I have seen it , first hand, many times. Not very encouraging for the new comer, I know. But that is the way it is.
As for working on an f-visa, you just call yourself 'a foreign consultant' to get around that one. And there are hotels in shanghai where you can renew them, instead of the expense of going to hong-kong

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Rock

Zorak03 · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject:

True to some degree but I would recommend coming on a visa other than Z. You are right about accommodations, pay and contract violations.

However, first I would NEVER live in an employer provided apartment and I would recommend any potential FT to demand a housing allowance and find your own apartment. Frist, this prevents you from being stuck in a dump; second it prevents you from being kicked out on short notice.

The pay part is the most risky. Most people do not have a problem when working for legit schools, but even a Z visa does not save you from this if the school has a relationship with the powers at be.....

Contract violations happen no matter what visa you are on. In my company the contact isnt honored 100%; even for the Z visa teachers and there is little you can do about it. However, it is a two-way street, according to the contract we should wear ties and be in the office between classes, but no teacher does this.

The reason I would recommend not coming on a Z visa is because many schools in China are terrible and with an F visa you are free to walk away and find another school. If you arrive on a Z visa and find that your boss is a jerk, you apartment is a dumb and your co-workers are drunks you could have a problem. To change jobs you need a release letter from your fromer employer. If you have your own apartment, an F visa then packing up and leaving is not a problem.

A teacher (at least in Guangzhou) now wouldnt stay unemployed longer then 12 hours. Once you have found a good school, you can make a run to HK and take care of the Z visa (possible now), as long as your school can get the Z visa....

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Zorak

Zorak03 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:00 am Post subject:

Pros and cons. The two best apartments I had were school provided, and nice. However I would always advise to have it stated clearly in the contract. For some schools, the apartments are far nicer and in better locations then you could ever get on your own. Other schools, the apartment is a dump

You're right, some school's housing is wonderful. I do recommend you at least look at the place first, just gotta protect yourself.

At least here in Henan, seven years, I have found this to be a complete myth. If you are here legally, and the school is violating the contract, they will get no sympathy from either the PSB washiban or the SAFEA waishiban. Substantial contract violations are enforced. True they might get peeved if u complain about no microwave, but they will also get peeved at the school, and tell the school to get you one ASAP

So again, in Henan, I have found this to be an old wive's tale. However Guangzhou is basically another country when you are talking about CHina

That is wonderful, I know some provinces/places do attempt to assist teachers, such as Jiangsu, and now Henan. However, many provinces dont, like Guangdong, Anhui, Hubei ect. As one Wuhan teacher said "You could go into the PSB with a knife in your back and a Chinese attached to it and still be found in the wrong." Just got to protect yourself.

I haven't heard many (any?) horror stories from people who feel trapped because they came on a z-visa. But both firsthand and on Dave's I have heard many stories of unpleasantness that could have been avoided, except the person had no z-visa, thus no RP. Getting the RP is good. Working on a L visa or F visa has many pitfalls you don't mention.

Most of the horror stories I have heard started with the teacher coming on a Z visa. Including my good friend who is still fighting it out with his former boss (who has a relationship) to get a release letter. However, I never said working on an L or F is a good idea, but checking out the place before committing is my suggestion. If you find a good school then try to get the Z visa. My school is wonderful, however, my FAO is clueless so im fighting for my Z visa now....

well we could disagree forever. I will end by saying again and again here on Dave's we hear of problems and the vast majority, if not all, arise because the z-visa was not obtained first.[/quote]

Of course, but we can both agree that is it important for teacher's to protect themselves. Thank you for your reply and helpful advice![/b]

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Agreed totally, the FT must really how to protect himself, and learn the area works where THEY live. One thing I think most here agree on, the idea that there is some national agreement or consistency on how to enforce rules, etc ia a pretty foolish idea