Job Discussion Forums

[sidjameson]

Ive taught in a few countries and in my experience the majority of English teachers are actually not really teachers at all. At least what I mean is that they are not really teaching, its more like training and they arent teaching the English language, again its more like giving the students training and for this I mostly mean practice in speaking English.

In my experience, other may disagree. My teaching has been mostly

Japan...........conversation partner, human tape recorder, the guy who sets the frame for others to have a converstaion and then gives feedback.

Indonesia......same

Spain............same

This is not to say that I dont do a few other things to earn my shackles and I am not looking for critique on my teaching skills. I know I have done what is required of me in the above countries.

I am asking what its like in other countries. Partly because there is, as far as my experience goes, a bit of a myth in TEFL that one is teaching the language in the way that one must do to a student who has not studied it before when the reality that I have so far come across is that the foreign teacher isnt really teaching anything and is basically just trying to get the student to USE the English that he has already learnt.

Do others find that this corresponds to the main bulk of the teaching market in their country?

[spiral78]

EFL isn't confined to private language school gigs. What we do in international schools, public schools, and universities is very different. Ditto those of us who have independent work for corporations. I haven't been a 'human tape recorder' since my first year in EFL, thank god.

Yeah, I think your statement may be a fair assessment of the private language school scene in most countries.

But that's not the end of the story in EFL in general.

[william wallace]

That's right, man! Tell it like it is....
In general ESL/EFL classes in Beijing are as such. I've found it is either the human recorder, or the giver of foreign cultural highlights,but that predominates in the private language schools.
. In the more high-brow ESL/EFL it's serious cash outlay for those wanting various acronyms. A good example is the 5 minute MBA - The shorter the time, the more accommodating the classes, the greater the expense.Those numerous Western universities troubled by the shrinking family size,joint venture with the Chinese universities and presto! Some money for China and some money for Australia, Kiwi-land,UK, Canada...Throw in some cash for those that bring it all together, then lower the standards to maximize quantity of students/customers and you have a cash-cow.
I've taught accredited classes at 2 of China's top 10 universities, and they were utterly fraudulent;as far away from the syllabus as to make it null and void.
Too many folks hold degrees today,in relation to the jobs available.

[denise]

[naturegirl321]

I've found recently lots of mine have been stressful, with lots of organisational changes, syllabus changes, etc, which is one of the reasons I'm looking to move to another country.

[nickpellatt]

Isnt practice one of the key things in learning though? Learning without practice, practice and more practice is pretty tough going. Dont get me wrong, I do agree, but I am sure that in pretty much any EFL classroom, regardless of country or environment, practice and reviewing happens a lot!

I have pretty much worked in the type of school where I was employed for Oral lessons, and so am familiar with the set up described. And yes, lots and lots of times I didnt teach new things but allowed them to practice old things. But mostly, they do need practice, they still need help with form, and pronunciation...and so I think it is still valuable teaching.(most of the time )

I also think that regardless of the setting....some of it is also the teachers responsibility to ensure it doesnt all become pointless practice.

Im as guilty as the next man as wandering into class with a CD and a song, and having kids singing a pop song. By the same token though, I have later (as I became more aware of my teaching abilities), used the same song to analyse language, identify patterns of rhyme and introduce new vocabulary.

Even the stereotypical dancing monkey teacher can do something positive sometimes.

[fluffyhamster]

[Jetgirly]

Even in worst case scenarios I have seen my students learn more than they started with. I taught a lot of Business English in Italy with Inlingua, and I don't know what kind of leaps and bounds could possibly be made when you're teaching a group of eight adults for one ninety-minute period each week, and when they won't do homework because it's employer-mandated English lessons and they won't get paid to do homework on their own time. Nobody would have high expectations of an English speaker studying a foreign language under similar circumstances.

[steviok85]

Interesting to read what nickpellatt had to say about "practice, practice, practice".
I worked in Poland for a year, and I am now convinced that what I was doing, or not doing, was essentially pointless. Typical scenario- I worked from September until June as a native speaker doing the usual things- speaking practice and pronunciation.
At present, I am working for a school in Bosnia with a very different approach to learning a language. I believe it's the right approach. I have realised that "speaking practice" is nothing short of pontless chit-chat whereby students only practise the English they already know, and who knows how many mistakes they make in a lesson.
I am not all for the Callan Method, but I believe it produces results. I am teaching now with coursebooks, but the principal tells us to eliminate the "chatty" exercises when we plan. So lessons are made up of "useful" English exercises from coursebooks and heavy revision of tenses- their forms, uses, how to form the affirmative, negative, interrogative etc. We create our own drills, and students also repeat them from grammar books, and we repeat them, and repeat them, and repeat them.
When I used to sit in the teacher's room in Poland, people talked about whether this is right, that is right, is the DOS good or is she bad? The reason people talked is because there was no real system, no method of teaching.
It's different here in Bosnia. You walk into the school and you see a sign: 'The best way to learn a language is to repeat, repeat and repeat'. Nobody says a bad word about the Director or ignores her 30 years of experience, because people know she's right.
I never learned anything in Poland. I didn't teach any grammar at all. I left in June and I didn't even know what an 'infinitive' was or when we use the Present Simple or Present Continuous. Upon reflection, native "chatter" or not, it's just plain WRONG. The Boss here in Bosnia found me out pretty swiftly- I did not know anything about grammar. So she more or less ordered me to sit down and study from a book that students right throughout the Serbian Republic use in their secondary schools. It explains the tenses clearly, and has exercises which students repeat, repeat and repeat. I never thought "dictator" when I had to spend one weekend practising the phonetic transcript, because it's for my own good.
Two months down the line- I feel quite confident when I walk into the classroom. I have the grammar in my head. The kids are learning, and they don't argue when we repeat, repeat and repeat- even the little tots know it's beneficial.
At the time, in Poland, or at happy clappy summer schools in England, I never knew what I was dong was (sorry to be so confident given my inexperience) WRONG. Yeah, me too, Nick: "Im as guilty as the next man as wandering into class with a CD and a song, and having kids singing a pop song". Sadly, I cannot see the benfits of it now- even for introducing new vocabulary.
I'm learning a lot.

[rusmeister]

There's a lot of truth in what you say, Steve. I'm in my 14th year of teaching, and I've come to the solid conclusion that it has to be BOTH theory (grammar, and the kind of practice that should accompany it), and practice, meaning the application of language via songs, movies, free speaking, etc.

Most traditional methodics in non-English-speaking countries lean towards the former (based mostly on a traditional lack of access to the latter), but most modern approaches lean towards the latter. As you put it, practice, practice, practice is critical to learn how to do/say anything correctly. But the songs, movie and other stuff that they see outside the classroom are the reason they do it, and stick with it and put up with the practice/grammar that you impose on them.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[arioch36]

Lots of truth on both sides. Learning requires work and practice. Hey, top basketball players like Jordan practice a lot. But if what you are practicing is of no value, ...

[LongShiKong]

I fully agree with arioch36. I'd say it's the quality of practice that makes the difference.

Since language learning is mostly memorization, and memorization techniques all work on activating the imagination, the key then is to engage the imagination with vocalization.

The surest way to engage the imagination is with emotion. When I taught corporate classes, I sometimes started my classes with a song that I knew they'd like but had never heard before. I'd couple it with some kind of language exercise: translate it back into English; listen and fill-in-the-(partial)blanks; convert the tense; etc. It's much easier with kids who haven't been overwhelmed by years of English. I'm sure many of us make full use of humor: 'Can you play football with a cat?'

Re: arioch36's 2nd point: Always use complete sentences

Single-word answers are unacceptable in my classes for the simple reason that they don't develop the fluency that oral language classes are intended for. For that matter, I don't even want to ask the questions, I prefer delegating that to students via pre-printed questions (increase Student Talking Time)

Re: arioch36's 4th point: USE (not remember) new vocabulary
I've learned not to underestimate the value of cumulative review by looking for ways to meaningfully recycle previously studied language (not just vocabulary) and combine it with new language so as to provide some kind of semantic context.

English for too many students is just another 'pointless' subject and I can fully appreciate that attitude. In grade 6, French suddenly became compulsory in Canadian public schools for reasons I won't go into. There was no attempt to 'sell' us on the merits of learning it and I knew no one who spoke it--it was simply imposed on us. I'm sure many of us felt that we were the 'monkeys' repeating whatever came out of the teacher's mouth almost on queue. We didn't take too kindly to her and within weeks, she left the classroom in tears, never to return. I'm sure, if taught differently, it could've been our favorite class.