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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Transfer of Visa Question |
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Ok. I have come to terms with my current employers (Kid castle) in xian. They're willing to release me from my contract, if i give them a months notice letter. They're also willing to give me a letter of release, and also a reference letter if i want one.
Basically, I need clarification in regards to the transfer of a visa from one employer to another. My residency permit is for Xian, and while my visa covers the whole country, i'm registered for work in Xian. I'm looking to move out of this province and seek work in another area like beijing or Shanghai.
Kid Castle have said that they're required by law to inform the psb when my contract is finished and when they do this my visa will revert to a L visa. This would force me to have to get a new employer set up within 15 days or leave the country. They've also acknowledged its possible for the visa to be transfered but they were decidedly vague as to how this could be achieved.
So is it just the matter of getting a new employer and having them transfer the visa over to their responsibility? If I have the backing of KK to leave, along with the letter of release and a reference letter are there any forseeable issues in getting a visa transfered? My visa is valid till June 2009 and I'd like to stay in China until then.
I'm looking at legal answers to this. Not really interested in working under the radar or other similiar options. I want this to be done completely within proper terms. I want to be completely free of KK influence at the end of this.
Note: It might be worth knowing how this came to pass. I've had issues with KK and how they ran the school, but thats not so important as such. The reason i'm leaving comes down to a cultural taboo. In teaching Kinders I would stand over them in playing the game "Freeze". I would do this to prevent their heads from falling and hitting the ground while i tickled them. Well.... one of the grandmothers got offended (on the grounds of a taboo) that i would stand over her grandchild. She complained and later went home. That wouldn't be so bad, but she somehow managed to give herself a heart attack from her distress, and was sent to hospital. As such the parents of the child are quite upset, and unwilling to let it slide as cultural misunderstanding. It works quite well for me as i now have the chance to leave KK on good terms with the bosses.
Either way, just be careful of the cultural misunderstandings that can occur over here. I've done this sort of thing alot over a long period of time with parents watching, and never before had any complaints, but this one woman found it awful. So, just be careful of these sort of misunderstandings. While its worked in my favour, in this instance, it might not have the same worthwhile result for you.
Many thanks for any information. |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 546 Location: HangZhou, China
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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"stand over them" ???
You mean the V of your legs is above their heads? And, you bend/lean forwards to tickle them?
Not sure about your RP situation. There're a few other Visa/RP threads and the STICKYs above too... and the vaunted Daves ESL Cafe SEARCH function...
LFA |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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You have to get everything all over again, but you do not have to leave the country if you do it before your RP expires. That is, you find a new school now. That school goes to the education bureau and gets a new work permit for you. You should not need a new medical. The school takes your work permit (can be done same day if neded, usually a couple of days) to the PSB, and if they take it to the PSB before your reidence permit expires, you don't have to leave the country and come back. You do not want to let them covert it to an L visa. The passport is in your hands, right? Negotiate ask the school to give you a month unpaid or something |
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cj750nomad

Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 252 Location: Beijing and
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:06 am Post subject: |
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also a good idea to keep the FE book.... |
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joey2001
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 697
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Transfer of Visa Question |
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cormac wrote: |
Note: It might be worth knowing how this came to pass. I've had issues with KK and how they ran the school, but thats not so important as such. The reason i'm leaving comes down to a cultural taboo. In teaching Kinders I would stand over them in playing the game "Freeze". I would do this to prevent their heads from falling and hitting the ground while i tickled them. Well.... one of the grandmothers got offended (on the grounds of a taboo) that i would stand over her grandchild. |
What "cultural taboo" would that be? I don't know the game you mentioned, and what exactly the issue here is. But I was not aware of there being any such taboo in China.
I can't help you with the visa problem, but my advice to you is you need to be careful with Chinese parents/grandparents. They can be overly sensitive when it comes to their children and grandchildren. I hope they won't give you any legal trouble. Judging from what you wrote the child's family is pretty upset, so there might be some chance of that. Be careful! Getting in trouble with the law in China, especially as a foreigner, is no fun
Again, I don't know what happened. But maybe you should avoid games where you need to touch the children in the future? Just my opinion |
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mikefriend
Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 118 Location: Sleep walking around the world. But don't wake me up, you might kill me.
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
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lf_aristotle69 wrote: |
"stand over them" ???
You mean the V of your legs is above their heads? And, you bend/lean forwards to tickle them? |
Pretty much, yes. i'm 6ft 3inches tall and kinders love having someone this tall stand over them. Afterall, half the battle in kinders is getting the kids to love you, so i used what worked. This worked, and i never got any complaints before this.
Quote: |
Not sure about your RP situation. There're a few other Visa/RP threads and the STICKYs above too... and the vaunted Daves ESL Cafe SEARCH function...
LFA |
Oddly enough I did use the search function, look at the sticky's and manually go through page upon page of posts. While helpful, the situation in china seems to change quite quickly especially with the newer law changes. I wanted to get an up-to-date verification considering how important this is.
But then again, i've never really understood why anyone will say they know nothing about the situation i'm asking about, and then tell me to use the search. Hardly worth mentioning, is it?
arioch36 wrote: |
You have to get everything all over again, but you do not have to leave the country if you do it before your RP expires. That is, you find a new school now. That school goes to the education bureau and gets a new work permit for you. You should not need a new medical. The school takes your work permit (can be done same day if neded, usually a couple of days) to the PSB, and if they take it to the PSB before your reidence permit expires, you don't have to leave the country and come back. You do not want to let them covert it to an L visa. The passport is in your hands, right? Negotiate ask the school to give you a month unpaid or something |
arioch36, thanks for the info. Thats very useful. As for money, i'm getting two months pay at the end of this month. They see my leaving the school as being a favour to them, so they're being very accomadating.
joey2001 wrote: |
Again, I don't know what happened. But maybe you should avoid games where you need to touch the children in the future? Just my opinion |
You could be right, but there isn't a pc brigade like there is at home. I dont tend to touch juniors or seniors, but kinders like to be tickled, and generally as long as the kids are happy with you, the parents will also. I definetly wont be standing over them again, but i'm not sure i could cut out physical contact games. I'm thinking through all the kinder games that are usually played at KK and all but one require some form of tickling, or touching. You can probably avoid touching for juniors and seniors, but Kinders? I dont think you can avoid it. |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 546 Location: HangZhou, China
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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cormac wrote: |
But then again, i've never really understood why anyone will say they know nothing about the situation i'm asking about, and then tell me to use the search. Hardly worth mentioning, is it? |
Well, since you'd (apparently) been a member of Daves ESL Cafe for all of a few hours at that point... I thought it was worth mentioning...
Interesting read that McMartin preschool trial fiasco. However, I didn't find a part talking about "standing over the kids"... Are you in the guilty, or not guilty camp Mike?
We may never be able to go back to a time when touching of kids by strangers and teachers (not to mention dads, uncles, and grandpas) is viewed without suspicion...
In China child abuse, including sexual abuse, is sadly extremely under reported, even though it surely is a massive problem. Just take a look at that creep down south this week! The tip of a big iceberg...
AFP article: Online uproar in China as drunken official grabs girl
Domestic violence is another area that's also at the same level of exposure as it was in the western world 40 or 50 years ago.
A lot of social change will need to happen here as it did in our countries for these victims to get a voice and legal support. And for the stigma to be reduced and the assaults and abuse to be seen as criminal acts. They're quick with a lynch mob here though... if the perp is not a family member...
LFA |
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mikefriend
Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 118 Location: Sleep walking around the world. But don't wake me up, you might kill me.
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
However, I didn't find a part talking about "standing over the kids"... Are you in the guilty, or not guilty camp Mike? |
Ummm whats the "Statute of Limitations" on these things? Better check before I answer... |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 546 Location: HangZhou, China
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Mike,
I wasn't suggesting anything. Just that I wasn't sure if your post was neutral, or if you were implying that you had an opinion in that case? If the latter then I was just asking to find out. I'm an Aussie so no jurisdiction... don't worry!
LFA |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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You'll need to send your documents to your new school.
Have your new school contact your old school to coordinate things. If both side are cooperative, it can be done in two weeks or less, fully legal. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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lf_aristotle69 wrote: |
cormac wrote: |
But then again, i've never really understood why anyone will say they know nothing about the situation i'm asking about, and then tell me to use the search. Hardly worth mentioning, is it? |
Well, since you'd (apparently) been a member of Daves ESL Cafe for all of a few hours at that point... I thought it was worth mentioning... |
Actually, I'd tried joining the forum previously before i came to China, never got the activation code, and didn't bother trying again until recently. There are plenty of teachers here in china and other countries who don't post until they have a realistic question to ask. I'm not much of a forum junkie.
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We may never be able to go back to a time when touching of kids by strangers and teachers (not to mention dads, uncles, and grandpas) is viewed without suspicion... |
Definetly not in the west, but there exists the chance than asia won't go as far as the western nations did. After all, the pc brigade doesn't have a definite foothold here. Thank God.
Its worth noting, that the grandparent and family found nothing sexual in what i did. It was down to a lack of respect. By standing over the child i was placing myself over chinese people. A matter of perception as to a level of status. And i can kindof understand where they're coming from.
Quote: |
A lot of social change will need to happen here as it did in our countries for these victims to get a voice and legal support. And for the stigma to be reduced and the assaults and abuse to be seen as criminal acts. They're quick with a lynch mob here though... if the perp is not a family member...
LFA |
Again, as long as they dont make the same mistakes that the west have made in this area. We've gone to extremes where everyone is guilty before proven innocent regardless of the high morality our courts try to present. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Teatime of Soul wrote: |
You'll need to send your documents to your new school.
Have your new school contact your old school to coordinate things. If both side are cooperative, it can be done in two weeks or less, fully legal. |
Cheers, I appreciate the confirmation. |
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joey2001
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 697
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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cormac wrote: |
I'm thinking through all the kinder games that are usually played at KK and all but one require some form of tickling, or touching. You can probably avoid touching for juniors and seniors, but Kinders? I dont think you can avoid it. |
Couldn't you just play word games, show them pictures, sing songs, or whatever instead? I don't teach kindergarten, so I'm not an expert.
I just find it strange when you say that "touching cannot be avoided". I'm sure such games are popular with the kids, but maybe you should try some different ones where contact wouldn't be interpreted the wrong way. "Standing over" the kids does sound a little strange, to be honest... Whether they take it in a sexual context or otherwise, the parents are responsible for their kids, and we as teachers have to respect their feelings. Foreigners' reputation in China is bad enough as it is
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting you did anything inappropriate. I'm just saying that in China we need to be extra careful, more so than in our home countries. Here we represent not only our countries but "the West" in general. For many Chinese we are the only, or one of the few, foreigners they'll ever meet. So whatever we do will reflect in some way on all foreigners. It may not be fair, but that's how it is |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Couldn't you just play word games, show them pictures, sing songs, or whatever instead? I don't teach kindergarten, so I'm not an expert. |
I dont think so. Maybe some teachers can get away with that, but the simple fact is that we are there to ensure that their children love coming to the classroom. We're salespersons as much as we are teachers. Maybe if you're teaching in the public schools, you can avoid coming into physicl contact with the kids, but in private schools I've found that we need to keep the children estactic to be there. And that means providing a teaching experience that goes beyond standing there in the middle of the classroom with a bubble around you.
I know what you're saying though. Some teachers dont tickle children, and control their classes in other ways. But I've never received any criticism for tickling the kids. More than anything I get smiles from the parents when they see me playing with the children. In China moreso than any other country where one child families are the norm, the parents are extremely protective of their children, and never hesitate to say how they feel a teacher is doing (also considering they're paying quite a bit to have their children learn english). And I haven't received any complaints about the manner that i play with children.
It was just this one cultural difference. Standing over a child. Don't take this out of context. Nothing in their objection to me, had any physical abuse or sexual context. It comes down a cultural taboo.
Quote: |
I'm just saying that in China we need to be extra careful, more so than in our home countries. Here we represent not only our countries but "the West" in general. For many Chinese we are the only, or one of the few, foreigners they'll ever meet. So whatever we do will reflect in some way on all foreigners. It may not be fair, but that's how it is |
Personally, I think the above is more about how foreigners act outside the school. Most parents who see us in school, are already comfortable with foreigners to some extent. They've already made the leap of entrusting us with their children, and in the majority of cases they're proven right.
But its the actions of teachers outside the schools, when we're walking in the street, in the bars, in the restaurants, etc that reflect the most on the common perceptions of foreigners. And frankly I cant blame most chinese for having a skewed perception of foreigners. Some of the behaviour I've seen by foreigners has appalled me.... |
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