Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

[Roger]

Welcome, LA, and your question has sex appeal!

You have already been informed that the accent thing has been discussed in a different thread;
as for "what" we are doing in CHinese "classrooms", it's very little to do with where we come from and what accent we have; we are mainly active in remedial work - our charges' pronunciation, grammar, comprehension and so on.
If I come across a Chinese who has picked up a strong Hollywood pronunciation I congratulate that person and try to steer him or her towards generalising it rather than losing it when faced with new lexical items that someone pronounces with an Aussie or British accent.
But you will notice that extremely few of our learners actually have a native-English accent; we have a lot to do in terms of correcting mispronunciations and to get them to acquire a more natural intonation.

After all, most of us are not teaching at all; we are practising conversation nglish, which is not teaching, but practising.
And what with class sizes of 45 to 50 - and a teacher friend telling me she enrolled her daughter in a Hunan school so she would experience "the true China" with 99 fellow students in the same classroom - it would be an illusion to think we can do anything very useful.
Apart from kindergartens! But there, you don't have this stupid dichotomy of expat teachers doing one thing, and local teachers doing something radically different.
In kindergartens you can actually lay a solid foundation - if the principal and the parents don't interfere.

[Lanza-Armonia]

Thanks for the welcome Rodger. But cut the chit'chat and down to bizznizz.


I understand what you are saying about the kindy kids. I try to teach them (or practice with them, whatever) the pure basics. With a strong foundation the pyramid can only get higher.

But then, I teach in a private school. This is where was get the nastiest little spoilt brats that have mummys and daddys whom can pay for said education (or machinism as I like to call it). I will continue where the Chinese teacher left off and I will try to correct the pronounciation; obviously to no avil.

The children swear blind (in Chinese of course) that the theata sign, which is the 'th' in 'think', is said as a funny 's'. Anyone who has half a functioning braincell knows this, but the children insult me to their parents because I am teaching them the wrong English (Tiananmen-style thoughts come across one's mind). I have no idea where this is going. I just think that if you wanna teach English in this primitivly modern country, one has to speak Chinglish......

Thoughts please.....

LA

[Roger]

LA,
I can understand your frustration, but I don't see it quite so negative. By the way, are you Italian?
I taught in one and the same kindi for two years, and my first year was a dream come true - everything went according to MY SCRIPT. In the second year, things changed due to orders being obeyed from higher up.
What I mean by building a solid foundation is more than mere phonetic mimickry; I don't care so much how the kids pronounce those words; I am more concerned with how they learn to communicate. Proper pronunciation comes from understanding. I taught them to write the ABC, and by writing they acquired a basic understanding of how letters become different phonemes inside different words, such as 'T' in 'T'shirt' versus 'T' in 'wiTH'.
I had a Canadian exercise book that lists letter combinations for a couple of hundred pages - we didn't get far enough in that book.

On the other hand, as soon as parents are allowed to give their input you ae in hot water. A good school re-educates parents first - they need to understand that their own child at age 3 to 5 cannot be put through the same intellectual mnemotic motions as a primary school kid.
Kindergartens are less about learning subjects; they are more a kind of socialising training where children learn how to learn, and how to behave in a class.

[Taishan]

Hmmmm,
Which English is best eh?
I try to stick with the kiddies' books as far as it comes to spelling, as they would get rather confused if I were to switch between both or try to teach both. As they'd surely forget which was which. I teach US English even though I'm English due to their textbooks. Cell-phone not mobile-phone etc, just for consistancy.
I'm also with Arioch36 on this one good English speakers do sound very similar regardless of their geograhical location. The queens' English? Does sound rather outdated to one doesn't it? BBC English is really the best standard I think. Or CNN in the US. Unforunately in England social class does have a great impact on an accent. I would be barely able to understand a Northumbrian coal-miner or Liverpool dock worker myself, so England is pretty bad for accents.
BUT England is where English came from, I'm English and I teach English. It does sound sort of logical! Yes, I do feel a sense of love and almost ownership towards it. Who takes any notice of French-Canadian French? Or West African French? Few, if any, most look to standard French from France as the purest form of that language, disregarding any regional accents that there may be in that country.
Also British English is possibly more widely spoken than American English. As Indians, Pakistanis, Auzzies, Malays, kiwis, etc (what 's up with kiwi vowels? Fush und chups? (scottish influence?)) are all rooted in British English although their accents are fairly warped.

[Lanza-Armonia]

Taishan:

A great post. Where about's in the UK are you from? I concur that fact that British English could well be the most spoken English in the world, doesn't the fact that 'Crazy English - China' only teaches and thrives on teaching 'American'. There isn't even the word English in their title. I had two 'friends' apply and noting their experience, personality and gender (female getting the prefrence, i feel) one would have a correct assumption that they would get in. They were told they couldn't be interviewed because they were Austrailian but the requirements for entry were 'Native-English speakers only'. Fair comment, they were in the pecking order and yet, nothing, i'm getting side tracked, .......end of story is that la lengua inglesa es all� hacer el dinero, nada m�s

Rodger:

My grandparents are all from different nationalities. But my claim is a Spanish Brit. I prefer the former but the later gives me an international MasterCard, I think you'll find...hence the damn job

[Dr.J]

I have not found that the teaching (or not teaching) of certain accents and versions of English has significantly hindered the serious students' progress in learning English. I have found that real problems occur with the actual language itself, not its minor variations.

By the way that reminds me. What did Arnold Schwarzenegger say when he was asked to do a film about famous composers?

























"I'll be Bach."

Ha ha ha I kill myself.

[Aramas]

Imho everyone speaks a dialect. There are hundreds of them, and none of them are more valid than any other. In my experience the most esoteric of them all are British regional dialects such as those in Glasgow, Liverpool, Somerset, the East End etc.

Even the 'Queen's English' (tut-tut - as a teacher you should know better - it's the 'King's English' after King James) is a dialect - and an artificial one at that. I can't remember the details but apparently it was invented by a linguist at Oxford or Cambridge in the 1920's to give the ruling classes an edge in governing the Empire by encouraging much forelock-tugging amongst the great unwashed. Prior to that the toffs each used their own regional dialect.

However, having said that, there is really only one neutral English and that's BBC English. Even though no one actually speaks it, it's the common thread between them all. I gather that some schools specifically teach US English and in that case US conventions should be adhered to (I'd rather stick forks in my eyes ). Otherwise the students are paying for BBC English, and that's what should be delivered. IMHO, of course

[Lanza-Armonia]

Please do Doc!