Job Discussion Forums

toma · Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA

What, if at all, is the difference in the eyes of Russian schools between an MA in TESOL from the States and the CELTA that everyone else has?
I'm working on a 2 year degree, studying linguistics, psycholinguistics, morphology, phonology, etc. Surely this will count for something. (Please God, I can't afford another poorly chosen discipline.)

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject:

The big difference is that an MA in TESOL is, sadly, no guarantee that one can actually teach. This is mainly because they seem to vary widely in terms of quality and even of course content, whereas the CELTA, though merely a pre-service course, is pretty much consistent the world over, and regulated by Cambridge. Does your MA include any practical teaching assignments? With an observer who gives feedback? Is it an online course or were there real input sessions?

If not, it will more than likely be dismissed as only a theoretical course that does little in the way of giving a new teacher a real grounding in what to do in a real classroom with real students, and a monolingual classroom at that.

Ask yourself this: 'Do I know what to do when I am teaching elementary learners present continuous / vocabulary / reading skills?' Much to everyone's regret, I have many times experienced highly-qualified MA graduates who I am sure were quite brilliant at course / syllabus design or test-writing etc., but who were clueless when it came to any practical application, as in the above typically basic teaching contexts.

This may not be true of your MA course, but it is the first question mark that will ping over the head of any half-awake DOS who is sifting through reams of CVs. He is not looking for a would-be professor who will just stand in front of a class and lecture/bore the uncomprehending learners with a barrage of TTT on Grimm�s Law.

With that in mind, I would stress the practical nature of your studies. Best of luck!

toma · Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA

But....they don't WANT to know about Grimm's Law? Is the Great Vowel Shift out too?
JK. thanks for the thoughts. I have been purposely keeping my program to practical matters, and focusing on young learners in particular. I have a practicum required and other experience building plans for the coming semester.
Plus, I can sing, and I think this will help.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

A Celta is a career entry level one month full time post BA course.

Mid career comes the Delta, and some MA courses (King's College London) accept the Delta as excusing candidates from the practical 1/3 of a 3 yr part-time MA in Applied Linguistics/TEFL.

So if you have the MA plus the Celta you'll be laughing, as well as being better qualified than 99.99% of EFL teachers.

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

I have a question moving in the opposite direction. Is a CELTA holder (original degree not being relevant to EFL or linguistics) likely to progress further with an MA in Applied Linguistics or a DELTA?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

Depends on the school, university and country you are in. However, as a very general rule of thumb, people usually progress further with a DELTA, except for the very top jobs, at the BC for example. This is, I would imagine, because if a school needs to fill a DOS position, for instance, then the DELTA is preferred. It is more likely that the new DOS with a DELTA will be able to give hands-on support to teachers, especially newer ones. And in Russia, the typical profile for contracted teachers is very low experience indeed. Raw, even. Again, not every MA in linguistics automatically confers real classroom ability.

Just look at the Russian 'methodist'. After having spent 5 years training at pedagogical university, sometimes more, and after having become near experts in phonology, say, most of them still cannot plan a proper communicative lesson to save their lives. This is probably why the more progressive ones go back and do a CELTA and then a DELTA after that.

I'd opt for the DELTA for career-teachers. Get an MA later on if you feel your career-path requires it. Not so sure it will, though.

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Thanks. Nice well-considered answer. Cole

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

An MA in Applied Lingustics is a much more intellectually rigorous and demanding qualification than a DELTA or DTESOL. A DELTA is normally achieved in 5-9 months part-time or (occasionally) 6-8 weeks full time. The MA would take 3 yrs p/t or 1 yr full time.

Some universities may alllow DELTA/DTESOL holders to skip the practical component of the MA reducing the time needed to obtain it to 2 yrs p/t.

The DELTA is in no way equivalent to an MA but it is very practically oriented whereas some MA's in AL or TEFL may not have such a practical component.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:

Don't know about the more intellectually rigorous bit, but most else of what you say is true enough. A DELTA is a diploma, an MA a Masters. Not really comparing like with like here. However, as the previous poster asked about career prospects, the DELTA is the obvious qual of choice.

Applied Linguistics covers many branches, and only some of them are related to pedagogy. Literacy, stylistics, first and second language acquisistion theory, sociolinguistics, etc., are all fascinating, but not really much help in teaching pre-int students how to negotiate meaning.

And of course, let's not forget that there are lots of online courses that offer something they call an MA, but have about as much weight as the attested diplomas anyone can see advertised in the metro.

A DELTA is definitly a DELTA

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

toma · Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA

The school from which I will take my MA is certainly accredited and respected, so no worries there.
As for the applied linguistics, I think that this can add a dimension to he classroom that is needed. Acquisition theory may sound pretentious, but it can aid the teacher in both assessment and curriculum usage. For example, what's the best way to teach Slavs to pronounce -th-?
I'm not worried about lack of practical experience, as I will have done two practicums and held a teaching post besides by the time I graduate.
I'm also glad that I can answer why "thought" has seven letters, but only three phonemes.
I would've gone for a DELTA, but I didn't have the ready 6000 dollars to spend, plus living costs in the UK, to get it. This way the government is paying for it.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

There's also a distinction between 'online' and 'distance' MA programmes (Birmingham falls into the latter category). Distance MAs can also be considered research-based, meaning that theory is applied to classroom practice, and writing assignments throughout the programme focus on analysing this. This is the kind of strong distance MA that is considered reputable.