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davidrwest2005
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Hubei
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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: China v. Thailand |
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I have been in China for 3 years and and thinking about leaving cold winters and questionably healthy food for warmer days and new tastes.
Is anyone out there who has lived in both China and Thailand and could offer any insight?
One specific issue is about the work day. A Chinese teacher may have 7 classes on a given day. Do Thai teachers have to face exhausting schedules too? Are the foreign teachers given exhausting schedules?
A lot of the negative comments about working in Thailand sounds like they could easily occur in China too. China, however, does have many good qualities and I'm sure these good qualities are found in Thailand too. Is it just that few people choose to comment about the great things in this forum? Is that a fair assumption? |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Well, honestly it really will depend on your co-workers and school. I have taught at universities in both China and Thailand and have had positive experiences both places but the visa issue for me has been much easier in China. However, I do enjoy living in Thailand more. |
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davidrwest2005
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Hubei
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I remember reading that Western teachers find that Thai students are somewhat immature compared with western students. I found that to be true while at a Chinese university. Still, a good portion of the Chinese college students valued my lessons.
But I read a lot on this forum that Thai students are somewhat lackadaisical. The same can be true for China too but engaging lessons and good classroom management skills are a good antidote .
Right now, I work at a primary school. The school has provided me with my own classroom "The English Workshop." The class teachers usually watch my classes to remind the students that they have to behave. That presence does wonders.
Working in China is great. While I enjoy the success, I wonder if there is something different that will be great and then some. I think Thailand has something.
Can you write more about some of the differences bith GOOD and BAD? |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Well I teach about the same number of periods a week here in China as I did in Thailand. One big difference is that I don't have office hours in China. In Thailand I was supposed to be at the office from nine to five or so.
I enjoyed the students in both countries but the students I teach in China are at a higher level than in Thailand. It may just be my class or the university but I feel that the students in China value their education more. |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Also I have to admit that I have been quite lucky. In both Thailand and China, the retention of teachers is quite high at both schools. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bradley wrote: |
One big difference is that I don't have office hours in China. In Thailand I was supposed to be at the office from nine to five or so.
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Herein, I believe, lies one of the principal differences between working in Thailand as opposed to China, along with much better holidays at government institutions, and other benefits such as free accommodation and air fare reimbursement very rarely offered in Thailand.
As a place to live, Thailand possibly has the edge, in that it is generally more congenial and, in the Urban areas at least, more user-friendly than China for a foreigner. You don't necessarily need Thai to get around - although a knowledge of the language (much easier than Mandarin in my view) naturally makes life simpler and more enjoyable.
For me the biggest disadvantage to Thailand has to be the work situation - particularly if you wish to ply your trade as a teacher. Salaries are about the same as China, but Thai employers are some of the most demanding on the surface of the planet, while offering very little in return. Long hours and a slew of extra-curricular demands (including at weekends) intended to deprive you of your free time are very much par-for-the-course in Thailand. Thai employees are mostly treated little better than indentured-serfs, and unlike in China, this same treatment is usually extended to the foreigner.
Another consideration is the convoluted Thai immigration procedures. I appreciate that since the Olympics, things have also become much more difficult in this regard in China, however the hurdles there still pale into insignificance when compared to the Byzantine labyrinth which is Thailand. Choose your Chinese employer carefully and the visa and residence process will generally be easily taken care of; this is rarely, if ever, the case in Thailand, where 4 or 5 different government departments (usually working in totally opposition to each other) are involved in the process of ensuring that the unwanted farang does not get too comfortable or become too entrenched on sacred Thai soil. You will have to make expensive (in relation to the salaries on offer) and disruptive visa-runs.
Given the right position and location, I would definitely consider going back to China, whereas wild horses could never drag me into the Thai workplace again. Far better to go to Korea for a year, save money and spend it in Thailand, without having to do battle with the ghastly Thai edutainment system. |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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The visa restrictionis have or are ending in China after the Olympics  That is good news. That is a huge issue for me as well. My school takes care of the visa for me whereas in Thailand I had to do most of it alone. |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| I think China is easier to adapt for a new teacher or expat.... |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| bradley wrote: |
| I think China is easier to adapt for a new teacher or expat.... |
I think that as long as you do your homework and choose your employer carefully, the Chinese workplace is much more laid-back and easier to adapt to than its Thai counterpart, and this smooths the adjustment to life in a new country. As previously stated, Chinese employers will also generally take care of the immigration paperwork and provide accommodation - things which you will have to procure on your own in Thailand. In addition, if you work for a Chinese university, you will have no shortage of students willing to assist you with the minutiae of every day living - something which rarely happens in Thailand. The biggest hurdle in China is perhaps the language barrier, which makes performing even the most mundane tasks difficult, and means you are very dependent on others until you start to pick up some Chinese.
Thailand has been on the well-trodden tourist trail for a long time, and is more used (though not necessarily more welcoming) to Western expatriates, retirees etc than most areas of China. Getting around and functioning independently in Thailand is therefore generally much less of a challenge than it is in China. |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| I totally agree with you |
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davidrwest2005
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Hubei
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: Thanks for the input |
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I think what both of you say about Thailand and China sum up what I have read elsewhere. In regards to "applying my craft," I get carte blanche from my school in China. My lessons are judged by the students' response and I feel that while students what a little entertainment, they also want a lesson with some meat on the bone. I'd be a fool for giving that up unless I was really unhappy. From the sounds of it, I guess that I would not find freedom in my curriculum in Thailand.
The other day, I arrived to school for my afternoon classes only to learn that classes were canceled for the sake of a sports day. It was a jump rope competition. So instead of classes, I played with the kids. Later, I won't have to make up those classes. Can I guess that this situation might be unusual in Thailand?
China's good but sometimes I need a break. Thoughts of Thailand quickly come to mind. But now I see that the reality of working in Thailand is a bit complicated...to say the least. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Thanks for the input |
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..double post
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Thanks for the input |
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| davidrwest2005 wrote: |
The other day, I arrived to school for my afternoon classes only to learn that classes were canceled for the sake of a sports day. It was a jump rope competition. So instead of classes, I played with the kids. Later, I won't have to make up those classes. Can I guess that this situation might be unusual in Thailand? |
I have never worked in a Thai school (I don't do kids under any circumstances  ) but I believe the sudden cancellation of classes for sports days and a myriad other reasons, without prior notice to the farang teacher, is just as common in Thailand. There are similarities to the work situation in both countries, but I found the working environment in China, at least at the government university level, to be far more relaxed and laid back than Thailand. Less xenophobia and attempted exploitation to contend with, too. I also found it much easier to earn the respect of my Chinese students, administration, and co-workers. I, too, was generally just left alone to get on with the job - one of the factors which made my time in China so enjoyable. There seems to be a common perception permeating all strata of Thai society, that farang are simply a resource to be exploited to the maximum before they eventually wise-up and leave, and that they are "lucky" to be in Thailand at all. There are those that would probably argue, with justification, that the Chinese have a similar perception (perhaps absent the "lucky" part), but my experience was that Chinese employers are on the whole far less "in your face" with this attitude than the Thais. Stand up for yourself in China, and this usually garners grudging respect. In Thailand, it almost certainly guarantees that your contract will not be renewed.
| davidrwest2005 wrote: |
China's good but sometimes I need a break. Thoughts of Thailand quickly come to mind. But now I see that the reality of working in Thailand is a bit complicated...to say the least. |
Thailand has always been good for a holiday or as a place to relax between contracts, though political upheavals, ever-changing visa regulations, rising prices, and increasing displays of xenophobia by the local populace (manifested in a variety of ways from scams and rip-offs to surly service and violence against foreigners) have tarnished its image somewhat in recent times. As a place to work though, I would be inclined to give the Land of Fake Smiles a very wide berth. |
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Carll101
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| There seems to be a common perception permeating all strata of Thai society, that farang are simply a resource to be exploited to the maximum before they eventually wise-up and leave, and that they are "lucky" to be in Thailand at all. |
I can't agree more with you. While in my mind I was teaching in Thailand as some kind of "volunteer work - giving back to society" thing, Thai people were trying to make me feel like they were giving me the opportunity of a life time.
| Quote: |
| The other day, I arrived to school for my afternoon classes only to learn that classes were canceled for the sake of a sports day. It was a jump rope competition. So instead of classes, I played with the kids. Later, I won't have to make up those classes. Can I guess that this situation might be unusual in Thailand? |
It is highly common in Thailand. During my time working in a public high school, I had dozens of classes canceled for enlighting activities such as rope dancing, presentation of a new commercial product, and others. The only time the Thai head teacher spoke to me was to tell me not to wear a polo ! |
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Pelican_Wrath
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who has worked in China (but only visited Thailand on holiday), I would have to say that China looks preferable as far as bog-standard ESL type work is concerned.
The jobs pay about the same, but the big difference is the extras: even in a bog-standard ESL job in China, you should get about 3 months' paid (out of the 4 months that you will get overall, meaning one month is unpaid) holiday, a paid airfare (although this may take a bit of hassle depending on how its worded), decent accommodation, very low working hours (usually about 12 real hours a week, or about 18 teaching periods, often less though too) and you should get some kind of health cover. The latter may mean that you have to go to the hospital and then give the receipts, but the school will pay it. All this was true of the first school I worked at in China, and that was about as bog-standard as you can get. It was right after I finished my CELTA, it was the first job I found when searching on google.
Thailand basic ESL jobs may pay about the same, but you won't get as many benefits as mentioned above, and won't get so ridiculously easy working hours.
I do think that Thailand is probably a 'better' place in many ways.
A lot of things that cost silly money in CHina won't be so expensive in Thailand. In China, a beer in a shop costs about 2 RMB and in a bar, 20-25. In Thailand, it's much more reasonable. The bar/shop differential isn't so great.
This dichotomy means that in China, most ESL teachers tend to just get beers in and hang out at home watching DVDs, where in Thailand they have a bit more of a social life, but that also means it's harder to save money in Thailand.
I do know that when I lived in China, and I looked at my friend's pictures of his life there, social life, going to the islands at weekends etc, I felt, to be quite honest, green with envy. It's hard to have that quality of life in China. But then he has an international school job. |
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