Job Discussion Forums

[SuperGeniusJonnie]

Dear fellow expatriates,

I would like to ask you all about your feelings concerning living here in Indonesia: the good, the bad & the ugly, so to speak.

We chose to live here, and, more important, we choose to stay. Why?

It is my belief that this forum is for fellows such as us to share our experiences and our advice. It may be helpful to develop a culture on this forum of help and support for fellow expatriates. To facilitate this, I ask only that you share your thoughts and feelings about life in Indonesia.

I realise this has been done before as there is a multitude of individual unconnected posts discussing experiences and personal feelings pertaining to life here. May we begin again and have these consolidated in one useful and supportive thread.

May we also keep our postings positive and not resort to criticism and arrogance?

We should not forget that this forum is frequently visited by people considering coming to Indonesia, and we have a duty to provide them with advice, encouragement, and a warm welcome.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

S.G.J

[laughing_magpie06]

Hi Jonnie, I don't know if i'm in some sort of minority but I chose to return home. I only told my wife the other day I feel more comfortable regarding health and safety especially having a young son. I don't mean street crime. I don't think it is any worse there than in the west, possibly better as they don't have alcohol fuelled violence on the streets at night. But if I was hit by a bus (quite possible) it would be swept under the carpet and i'd be just another bule biting the dust to them. Noone would be accountable or held responsible as human life seems to be less of an issue than money for a lot of people there. Also I got tired and stressed with the lack of clean air, green areas, sporting facilities and general laziness and disinterest by employees in customer service positions. I guess I didn't live the good life so to speak and really wouldn't want that either. I can't feel comfortable living in a country within a country. So I took public transport and ate at warungs too. Buses in Jakarta are as bad as i've seen anyway in the world and that's including the busway. Well that's my experience.

[Nabby Adams]

Very good post Magpie. I can't help agreeing with all you say. How much can you enjoy a beer when there are 100 guys quite literally standing outside the bar who wouldn't even be allowed to use the bathroom?

But if I may ask a question. If you found your self single again would you go back to Indonesia?

[rayman]

I can relate to a lot of what laughing_magpie spoke of. Also having a family, new concerns arise that wouldn't necessarily pose a sufficiently negative deterrence to a relatively care free singleton.

Having said that, Indonesia holds for me a great deal of positive aspects as well. I have a challenging job with a similar pay to teaching in public schools in Oz. Yet without the big classes sizes, behaviour problems and administrative nightmares.

It's also much easier to live a nice, comfortable lifestyle, save money and stay out of the mortgage debt trap and "keeping up with the jones's" mentality that so many young westerners fall into.

The list of must see domestic and SE Asian travel destinations also never seems to get ticked off.

Did I mention the lack of regulations? That's both a positive and negative, but I seem to experience the positive on a day to day basis and the negative only ocassionally, but arguably exponentially more frustrating.

As such, I see myself moving back and forth between Oz and Indonesia. Maybe a couple of years in each at a time. With maybe the odd contract in another part of the world. Just in an attempt to get the balance right.

[tanyakenapa]

I spent my teenage years in Indonesia from 13 to 18yrs and attended JIS whilst my parents were still working in Jakarta. They stayed here for 13 years.

During my my first stay in Indonesia (5 years) I went home to Australia for a whole 6 weeks only out of those 5yrs. I never wanted to go back.

I had made many friends mainly with the local kids, and my bahasa was fluent after about a year. I never really hung out with the expat crowd at school and I dont hang out with them now either after work hours. Im still friends with most of those kids from the kampung near home until this day.

I moved (I was told to by the parents) back to Australia in 1995 to go to UNI... which I really really hated and couldnt stop thinking about Indonesia. I never fitted back into the life in Oz. I dont know what it was. I knew that some day I would return to Indo and work. It was my ulimate dream.

In January 2005 I finally moved back to Jakarta, after leaving my house, job and few friends in Australia and have been happy ever since. Im now married to an Indonesian (always knew I would...) somehow the Australian guys never interested me.

Ive been working here now at the same job for about 4 years and really enjoy living in Jakarta.

Ive never felt unsafe in Jakarta whenever I go out alone.

We are planning to move to Australia next year... once my husband's spouse visa is approved, but I know that we'll always come back here at some stage.

Im going to oz on Tuesday for my brother's wedding, and yes it will be great to eat some nice food, breathe in fresh air.... drive around with the car windows down..... and do some fishing !!

But whenever the plane lands in Jakarta it really feels like Im "home"

sorry for rambling...

[SuperGeniusJonnie]

Quite a mixed bag of responses there � It is very unfortunate that Magpie appears to have lost his/her laughter while here in Indonesia. It certainly makes sense to want to the very best for your children, and by moving back to the West I hope it all works out for you.

How irritating it can be to attempt to do the simplest things in life and come up against a wall of sheer frustration. The ease of executing the small daily chores and pleasures we take for granted in the West can become a veritable battlefield here in Indonesia. For example, when one wishes to buy an item in a store which supposedly specializes in that item, and not a single person possesses an ounce of knowledge about the thing you seek. Furthermore, guarantees quite literally are not worth the paper they are printed on. Customer service is an oxymoron.

There are many, many small things that can grind you down to a nub of your former self, and, unfortunately, it is the combined total of small things which drives us to the point of insanity. However, when one leaves this land, one reflects and realizes that they are simply small insignificant things. It is the sum total while here that destroys our morale, but they are nothing.

I remember leaving Indonesia after a stay of several years. I was at tipping point. I could no longer bear the smells, sounds, tastes and images of everyday life, but when I left, I missed those things so much. You will miss them, also, as they are now part of you: We are only the sum of our experiences � good and bad.

It takes time away from Indonesia to truly appreciate Indonesia, in my humble opinion. In Magpie�s case, I hope you will look back with fond memories and maybe return one day when your child is a little older � good luck for your future. I hope you will continue to post here and share your thoughts about Indonesia. It will be interesting to know how you feel as time moves on.

Rayman, thank you for your comments: I am in total agreement that the larger picture is the picture which we should be viewing. It is great to read that you are doing so well for yourself.

Tanya, ahh the challenges of mixed nationality marriages: Not to be too presumptuous, but I have faced many challenges readjusting, tolerating, and adapting my own ways in my marriage, I am sure you have, also. It is wonderful that it is working out for you � as it is for me � and I hope Australia works out for you both. Your husband will no doubt face many new challenges adjusting to life in a Western nation, and it will appear odd to you concerning the things he will be uncomfortable with. I recently took my wife to Britain for the first time. She loved it. In particular, she enjoyed British customer service! However, she was very sad to find that Tesco does not stock Indo Mie.

____________

Maybe we can post nice and joyful experiences as and when they happen. We could also share information with each other on this thread concerning things to do and where to do them.

Think positively.

S.G.J

[laughing_magpie06]

Nabby, yes I would in a flash.

[Serious_Fun]

[malu]

Actually I disagree with what has been said about customer service in Indonesia. Sure, there are bad examples here but there are also very good. I deal with three banks here - BCA, HSBC and Citi - and my experiences have been generally positive. It is easy to forget the mind-numbing cack-handed incompetence that your average UK credit card customer receives from call centres back home.

I have bought two new vehicles here and I found the dealers to be very accomodating. I remember my Yamaha motorbike dealer used to send a boy to pick up my bike for service and deliver it back to me - at no charge.

It is possible to have practically anything delivered to your home at virtually any time of day.

Shops and businesses tend to open at hours that suit working people.

The 'bule effect' still works in our favour at times: I don't mind admitting that I enjoy being treated like minor royalty in posh hotels.

The upside of corruption is that we don't have to wait in line if we don't want to.

[guruengerish]

I worked in various parts of Java for almost 6 years of teaching, as I wanted to experience different cultures and to see the sights. It was a great experience, Jakarta being the worst IMHO, having come from an Aussie state which had clean air, clean water, little traffic. However, going to Yogya and living in the countryside was a revelation; the pay at EF was pathetic, but the people in the kampung where I lived were marvellous, and five years later, we still keep in touch.

I had my final year in Malang, and it was so totally different to Yogya: the people were not as friendly, there were more mosques per square metre, but it was all an experience.

Nothing like puttering around the countryside on weekends on a trail bike, to see the sights and meet the folk.

Sure, the medical aspects were possibly a problem, but apart from going base over apex off my motor bike, I was fine.

Most importantly, follow the traffic rules - give way to anything bigger than yourself, don't expect anyone to give way at a traffic roundabout, and zebra crossings are an invitation to death! Oh yes - if you live where there are betjaks, ALWAYS look both ways on one-way streets!!

[Gav22]

I just finished my first year in indo and am currently back in Ireland. Part of me is absolutely relieved to have the option of never having to hear another "mister mister" again, and never having to breathe the foul stench of open sewers or face the danger of crossing the street in Depok again.

I have coughed up all kinds of phlegm since i left and the good Irish air is stripping my lungs of the waste they've inherited since arrival in JKT last October. BUT.....and there's always a but.

I find myself decidedly bored. Nothing here is a challenge. While I admit that I experienced rage and fits of insanity in Indonesia (especially on arrival) - I actually do, in some ways, miss it. I have to say - i agree with whoever commented that in order to truely appreciate indonesia you have to leave it for a while. this is true.

I am currently in denial about the fact that i might end up becoming a more permanent member of Jakartas ex-pat community, but as i consider my options, it looks like it actually may tilt that way. As of yet I haven't made a decision, but my feelings about the place, as I'm sure you can tell, are mixed.

If I could sum indonesia up in a paragraph, it would be as follows:

"A country full of smiling, over friendly people with one of the most brutal and murderous pasts imaginable. A super-challenging, at times mentally destroying country with some of the most sublime and awe-inspiring beauty the world has to offer. A place that will grinf you down until you crack and leave, and then leave you craving for more. One giant archipelago full of contradictions, that ends up leaving the traveler feeling contradictory things about it."

That's my two cents.

[malu]

Sounds pretty sane to me.

I can't find the post but I remember someone comparing life in Indonesia to crack cocaine. Whoever it was ended up coming back to stay long-term.

A lot of people never get past the culture shock phase. Sounds like you did in the end. Maybe try somewhere with better air than Depok next time.

Good luck.

[basiltherat]

[philbags]

I cant believe some of you are gushing so much.
On the up-side, you get to to feel what it might be like being rich and famous, without actually having the money. The girls are nice for sure, and the people grin a lot, tho I'm pretty sure half the time even they don't know why.
But then anywhere larger than a village is filthy, and seemingly everywhere outside of an appartment block is considered to be a village, so you'll never have any kind of annonymity. And then when it rains, you have to slop through half a meter of shitty water to get anywhere.
I'll be back for me christmas hols.

[Michael_Indonesia]

[/quote] religiously devout sections of society are well versed in the habit of 'taqqiya' (the reliogously-sanctioned skill of decieving the infidel -in our case, foreigners -through any means to place them under a false sense of security and therefore vulnerable)[/quote]

I'm not the most religiously-minded person, but I do know that this is not taqqiya. Taqqiya means to guard oneself, or take precaution. If a Muslim was faced with a situation wherein he or someone else was faced with bodily harm, they were allowed to deny their religion. Muslims were (are?) allowed to practice taqqiya only to avoid persecution.

On the other hand, I think that what most of us have experienced in Indonesia is the typical Asian way of agreeing with what people say and do even when they disagree with it, especially if the other person is a parent, boss, or other authority figure.

Either way, it's just common sense to be cautious when trusting other people regarding your welfare.