Job Discussion Forums

[Master Shake]

[Richfilth]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7706263.stm

No solid facts, but it makes a change from the perpetual misery of this board

[Nico151]

There seem to be a lot of negative opinions on here (with the exception of the last couple of posts) and, as a newbie, who is considering making the move to Poland you are causing me some concern.

I have an interview for a job in Rybnik tomorrow and, i believe, the salary is 3800zl per month. What kind of standard of living do you think i could expect with this? I'm young and single so not looking for luxury. I would, however, like to be able to have a healthy social life and be able to travel around the surrounding area whenever possible. Is this realistic?

Also, if anyone knows anything about Rybnik or the Intensity school i'd appreciate some info (started another thread but no replies as yet)

Cheers.

[Harry from NWE]

[dynow]

i gotta say, the prices in Poland have seriously been pushing me away from the thought of staying here and starting a family, or even to stay here for any extended period of time.

sure, as an ESL teacher, you can earn 3,000-4,000 a month, which is far beyond the national avg. BUT, what does that mean? How does the avg. person making the national avg. live? Not well. How much better off are we? Well...............

If the national avg. income in Poland is 1500, and the avg. rent in a major city is....well........about the same, what are your options? Wait till you're 35 to finally move out of mom and dad's place? Excluding the apt., you have to consider what a vehicle costs, food, etc., and everything in Poland is being sold at incredibly high prices.

The scariest thing of all about living in Poland is the realization that if you were to have children here, there's a good chance they will be earning that national avg.

The national avg. in America is $44,000 per year, gross. After taxes, you have $2800 per month. You can rent an apt., excluding NYC area and California, for around $1000 a month. that leaves you with $1800.

big big difference. not to mention, everything is cheaper there compared to Poland. Electronics, cars, FOOD, gas, houses.......

I continually bring up the housing cost difference. Buying a home in Poland is horribly expensive. To have something even 120-140 sq. meters, you're looking at 600,000 PLN, no less. How can you charge $200,000 USD for a house in Poland, when you can live in America and buy a small house or condo for the same, where again, the earnings are considerably higher, and everything you buy is much cheaper as well?

Poland is turning into a country only for the rich. If you're not rich, you eat lots of bread and ham and cheese, and continue to complain like the rest of the Poles do.

Poland is no longer communist, but when you take a look at what people earn here, it doesn't appear much different. The best thing about the fall of communism in Poland is that now Poles have the ability to move OUT of Poland and look for somewhere else to live, not because they now have a free enterprise. I don't know how free it could possibly be when i earn more money than my doctor.

[Jack Walker]

It's all true.

But don't forget,there are no poor doctors in Poland.

They usually take "extra fees" from patients for service and they do pretty good at the end of the day.

On paper, it may say the average doctor earns 800zl per month or some ridiculous number like that,but in the end with "service fees" and private practice,and other goodies,they are hauling in 5,000-7,000 plus easily.

Some 10,000 plus and much more.

I've never met a poor doctor here.Quite the opposite actually.Some are very wealthy.

[scotv]

My wife (a Pole) has become woefully homesick, she's been a real trooper the four years she's been in the USA, but nevertheless she is homesick and misses her family greatly (they're very close and a good group of folks). So, I've been thinking about moving the family from the fruited plain of America to Poznanski and scooping up an ESL gig. I've been following this forum for about 8 months now and have found Dynow (among a few others) to be level-headed and reasonable. So, Dynow, your latest post has given me serious pause in considering the move. But here's a question: If one does not have a mortgage to pay, is Poland still a tough place to get by financially? My wife and I would both work, and I assume we'd make, at least, 5000 PLN a month. I'm not expecting to have the exact quality of life that I have here in the states making 50k in the Mid-West, but would such a Polish income provide a good quality-of-life?

Additonally, every economy, except Ghana's, is going to suffer from the setting global recession. What does anyone forsee the effect of such on the demand for ESL (I understand I'm asking for speculation here, but speculate away)?

[Jack Walker]

I lived in Poznan for a year and if you are pulling in 5,000-6,000 zl per month with a family but no mortgage,you will do ok.Don't expect to have much savings at the end of the day, but as far as pay as you play goes,you will manage.

The real worry starts when you have to take advantage of the "wonderful" Polish governmental services such as health care and retirement pensions.Get your dumpster diving skills in order or set up a lucrative private pension fund or start investing.You don't want to live out your golden years in Poland at the mercy of the state

The ESL business in Poland is a bit of a sinking ship.The "golden years" were the mid 90s-early 2000s.There are simply less prospective students and more competition with respect to language schools and teachers.If you can possibly do another skilled job in this country using your education,give it a try.

I hope whatever decision you make works out well for you and yours.

[lundjstuart]

The demand for natives wont suffer as much as a non-native teacher's classes. I have seen a lot of my classes join up with others because of companies trying to cut costs but its really just like 1-1 class joining in with my 5-1 class. In Warsaw, it's not going to be severely effected. As a teacher, you can easily make 5k yourself a month, plus your wifes 2k a month and your looking healthy! Consider getting some type of cert. in ESL or if you have BA degree, you're okay over here. Good Luck Scotv!

[dynow]

scotv,

first and foremost, not to impose, but you should ask yourself what is more important......for your wife to be less homesick, or for you and your wife to have a much better quality of living, cheaper living, have your children have the freedom of doing whatever they want as they are growing up including when they are of age to make some life decisions, and speaking perfect english on top of that. you may speak english to your children all you want, but if they're raised out here, it will be no where's near the level of a native, born and raised in the US, educated in US schools, etc. with that said, your children will speak perfect polish if they are raised here, but if they want to live anywhere else, their polish will be as useful as a bag of sand in the desert. again, i don't mean to impose, i'm sure you're a perfectly intelligent guy, but that's the thoughts running through the mind of another fellow american at the moment with a serious girlfriend, living in poland, on my way to getting married.

anywho........"doesn't have a mortgage to pay".......well, that would assume that is permanent. you may move to poland, decide to go to another city for work or whatever other reason, and then the mortgage/rent juice starts flowing. because of what your profession will be out here, chances are you will have to live in a big city, which means the obscene prices of basically everything, especially housing. i personally can't see how an american can be happy living in the boon docks of poland working for some little school in a town that doesn't even have a movie theater.....even worse yet if your polish isn't really strong. in a tiny town, your entertainment would be Polsat news, and listening to your wife talk with her family in a language you don't understand. talk about a feeling of isolation.

if you will come here, live in a big city, and be mortgage free and have no desire to leave, then sure, 5,000 will be plenty for you and your wife, assuming both of you do not need to own a car. I've never owned a car in Poland, but a friend of mine recently bought a used Rover, and it runs him about 1,000 PLN per month between payments, insurance, and gas.

if you have kids here, you'll be struggling, unless of course you're willing to work all year and not go on vacation or do anything else regarding travel or entertainment. don't forget, it costs 60 zlotych here in Wroclaw to take a girl to the movies with popcorn and a drink.

my girlfriend and I take home around 6,000 PLN per month, and we live comfortably, but neither of us own a car, and we pay low rent due to some luck when buying our apt. shortly before the real estate boom 3 years ago. if we both had cars, we flat out couldn't afford to live, and saving money to fly back to the US to visit would be out of the question, especially considering the current exchange rate. at $1,000 a ticket, for two people round trip is 6,000 PLN, an entire month's pay from both of us.

When I first came to Poland, my main motivation, besides the fact that I have Polish roots, was that I wanted to travel, learn Polish, and the earnings in Poland as an ESL teacher would provide me with enough money to not have to worry and live paycheck to paycheck, which it does. I had no plans of leaving poland, it was more of a "well, I'll give it 3 years minimum, and then I'll see where I'm at."

Now, after living here a couple years, I see the real Poland and what it has to offer. As a single guy, sure, it's not bad at all. Beautiful women, good paying job teaching your native language, opportunities to travel Europe......good deal. But when I think of getting married and starting a family here, things drastically change. If I may add, don't forget to ask yourself, "what would I do in Poland if I got tired of teaching English?" Unless your Polish is fluent and you have a huge nest egg socked away to start your own business, your options are limited. Even without the nest egg, assuming you were fluent in Polish, you're going to take a desk job making.....well........crap.

if you do decide to move out here, let me know when you get here, I'd be curious to costs and methods of shipping large items overseas, we have some great handmade furniture we would like to take with us to the states when we move

[Jack Walker]

Beautiful post Mr.Dynow! One of the posts of the year.I couldn't have said it better myself.

[sharter]

Having lost a lot of money when I got divorced, paying alimony, child support etc etc, I'm once again toying with the idea of buying a place in Poznan because I go to Poz for 18 weeks of the year and the hotels are just insane there now. By February I'll have a deposit of around 100,000Zl and I'm looking at flats in the 500,000Zl region.

I recently received a quote for monthly payments of 2,650 for 25 years borrowing 400,000 (5.75% I think he said). I don't know if this is any good as I've just started my research. A 500,000 Zl flat is no great shakes. Luckily, given the nature of my work I can easily afford that mortgage....probably even 3 times that.

However, if I were still teaching in Poznan, 2,650+monthly rates+bills+child support would come to maybe 4,500/5,000 Zl. I simply couldn't afford to go out after that...or eat much. Put simply, I'd have no life or future.

A few of my buddies bought 3-4 years ago and have seen the value of their flats treble. This is a false way of looking at things as you aren't any richer and your day to day life doesn't change. If you want to sell up, you still have to go somewhere. If you bought 2 or more flats then you're doing well...but most TEFLers aren't in the property game like that. Even if you do marry, it might not work out and then what? There was a guy in Poz some years ago who split up with the missus, she got the flat and he was left with the mortgage for example.

Planning the rest of your life in a foreign country is a big risk. My son comes first and that's why I'm thinking about getting him a place now, for later. For myself I'm looking at Bali or Thailand. Nice weather, friendly people, beautiful scenery and a villa with a pool for 100,000 Dollars! Rip off Poland can go swing.

Swapping the land of frowns for the land of smiles is a no brainer.

[dynow]

[sharter]

Dynow, it won't even leave you with that.

300-400Zl a month will be rates and then you've got bills.

I don't know how Poles do it. According to Mamdom, 2,900Zl is the average monthly salary there.

[Jack Walker]

I'll tell you how they do it.Credit and loans.

Most average Poles are head over heels in debt because their monthly wages simply can't cover their daily expenses plus all the extra toys and things that they want and covet.

My public school teaching sister-in-law and her policeman husband are highly in debt and just last week they they took out a 3 year loan to buy a bloody home cinema system which they didn't need and cost it 6,000zl.

Poles love to buy all the electronic toys even when 90% of the population can't afford them.They simply must have everything on the market.

I really can't understand it.It's like buy now on credit and worry about it later.

If their credit is maxed out, they will use their parent's or relatives credit if possible.

Personal debt here is very high.