Job Discussion Forums

[colt]

From NY times

By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Published: November 11, 2008

UNITED NATIONS � Saudi Arabia, which deploys a special police force to ensure that a narrow sect of Islam predominates in the kingdom, is sponsoring a discussion at the United Nations on religious tolerance starting Wednesday.

More than a dozen world leaders are scheduled to attend the meeting, including President Bush; the British prime minister, Gordon Brown; the Israeli president, Shimon Peres; and the heads of seven Arab states. King Abdullah, the Saudi monarch, and Mr. Peres were both expected as guests of Ban Ki-moon, the secretary general, at a dinner Tuesday night, a rare chance for an encounter.

The United Nations avoids religious discussions, so the two-day session of the General Assembly is officially being labeled as a meeting about the �culture of peace.� Most of those attending are political rather than religious figures.

But human rights groups are crying foul that Saudi Arabia is being given a platform to promote religious tolerance abroad while actively combating it at home.

�It�s like apartheid South Africa having a conference at the U.N. on racial harmony,� said Ali al-Ahmed, a Shiite Muslim dissident from Saudi Arabia based in Washington.

Human Rights Watch issued a statement calling on Saudi Arabia to start the fight against religious intolerance at home by ending �systemic religious discrimination.�

The position taken by Western leaders, including Mr. Bush, is that any attempt by the leader of a Muslim state to promote tolerance, especially one as influential as Saudi Arabia, merits support. Mr. Bush is due to address the session on Thursday.

�He is hopeful that this dialogue will provide a platform for voices from many different religions to foster tolerance,� said Gordon D. Johndroe, a White House spokesman, noting that tolerance will be the theme of the president�s speech.

Mr. Bush believes in �the importance of people, especially people in the Muslim world, being empowered to say that suicide bombings are not O.K. and to make that case especially to the young people of the Muslim world,� Mr. Johndroe said.

Neither the Saudi Embassy at the United Nations nor in Washington responded to phone and e-mail messages seeking comment about the criticism of the kingdom�s record on religious discrimination.

An extended argument also has erupted between Western and Muslim delegates over whether the discussion would result in a declaration including a condemnation of �the derision of what people consider sacred.�

That wording was included in a declaration issued after an interfaith dialogue sponsored by the kingdom in Madrid in July. It was an attempt to condemn anything that might echo the cartoons published in Denmark that disparaged Islam and the Prophet Muhammad. But Western states considered that wording a knock against freedom of speech.

�We are arguing human rights, they are arguing values,� said Jean-Maurice Ripert, France�s ambassador to the United Nations. �The reconciliation of those two differences is very complicated.�

The compromise formula is that there will be no formal resolution, but an oral statement that condemns disparaging other religions.

Saudi Arabia bars its citizens and its sprawling expatriate community, including tens of thousands of Christians, from any public worship outside Islam. The more than two million Saudi Shiites face widespread discrimination in worship, education and employment.

A special police force, the Society for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, ensures that Muslims go to prayer five times a day and that the Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam prevails.

The Saudi government portrays King Abdullah as a reformer wrestling with a puritanical religious establishment. It cites the interfaith dialogue as a prime example, because the extremist fringe has been grumbling about reaching out to �infidels.�

But critics point out that the kingdom promotes interfaith dialogue abroad, not at home. They maintain that the long alliance between the ruling Saud dynasty and the clerical establishment remains robust.

The senior ulema, or religious scholars, endorse the absolute rule of the princes as mandated under Islam in exchange for the religious establishment�s near monopoly over social and religious policy, they say.

The rise of Al Qaeda has been a disaster for Saudi Arabia, because the terrorist group�s teachings are rooted in the same puritanical traditions debasing anything foreign that circulate freely in the kingdom.

�It is a public relations exercise, they want to shed the image that they are the kingdom of intolerance and extremism and xenophobia,� Mr. Ahmed said about the interfaith dialogue. �The government controls the whole religious establishment, that is the problem. The problem is that the Saudi government doesn�t want to change anything.�

Meanwhile, Neither the White House nor Mr. Ban was willing to predict the outcome of the dinner being attended by King Abdullah and Mr. Peres. Mr. Ban said the discussion on religious tolerance was meant to encourage such encounters.

�The purpose of the meeting itself is to promote mutual understanding and to address all differences of opinion, either political or religious,� Mr. Ban said at a news conference, while avoiding any comment about the lack of religious freedom inside Saudi Arabia itself.

Diplomats around the building noted that because the Saudi government recently donated $500 million to the World Food Program, no one was likely to confront it openly about domestic issues of religious freedom.
More Articles in World � A version of this article appeared in print on November 12, 2008, on page A14 of the New York edition.

[trapezius]

Nice one... gave me a laugh!

I wonder how the Shias in the North of SA feel, the ones [unarmed civilians] whose mosques and houses were levelled by tanks a few years back, yes that's right, TANKS.

[007]

Well, can you imagine, Uncle Sam and Uncle Bandar with a Nobel Peace prize!
Why not? In this age, everyhing is possible!

[Cleopatra]

To quote the ever quotable George Galloway, referring to Tony Blair's appointment as Middle East peace envoy - "It's a bit like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank!".

[desert_traveller]

have you guys seen the banners on which the ksa promotes itself as the 'kingdom of humanity' ??? no kidding, the logo sometimes can also be seen on the packaging of ksa products, such as dates

it is amazing how the world is falling for their cheap trickery, but honestly, how would they know? the saudis masterfully pull the strings and brutally exploit the fact that while western societies are more or less transparent for the outsider, the ksa remains almost impossible to penetrate, which gives them a unique opportunity to describe their country any way they like

interfaith dialogue ... kingdom of humanity ... religious tolerance

[007]

Well, the magic kingdom is the kingdom of humanity in the sense that it provides jobs to millions of poor people all around the world, including ESL/EFL teachers, from USA to Bangladesh.
In the other hand, the magic kingdom, is the kingdom of (in)humanity in the sense that it provides unjustice to its citizens and the rest of the world.

Of course, Uncle Bandar does not and will not agree with my second statement!

[colt]

Who is Uncle Bandar? pray tell!

and who is Uncle Bandar's running dog?

[Sheikh N Bake]

You keep saying that, 007, but many other countries provide far more jobs than Saudi does, and also to those around the world. The US not only provides jobs to foreigners around the world (when the economy allows, of course) but also, in many states, free and guaranteed access to the public school system to illegal immigrants' children! Does the KSA offer that? I wonder how many European countries do that. And who, aside from religious wack jobs, would want to go to a KSA public school anyway? (Yes, we can make the usual deserved jokes about US public school education, but even then there are always school districts within a city that are decent.)

[Cleopatra]

[007]

[sheikh radlinrol]

[Mia Xanthi]

Interesting follow-up article on this topic.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/nov/29/saudis-set-poor-example-religious-tolerance/

[shadowfax]

And Stan Laurel is to give a lecture on bodybuilding

[johnslat]

Perhaps we could entice scot47 to present his internationally acclaimed lecture: "Equality for Women: Fight for Your Rights."

Or maybe we can persuade the Sheikh to give his slide-show and talk: "Saudi Arabia: Paradise Regained."

Regards,
John

[007]