Job Discussion Forums

[Mpho]

I am forced to disagree with a recent poster who is saying that Angelina's is basically a scam.

Angelina's makes money from the schools that hire a client through their services. (usually one months salary).

Their website puts you in touch with a contact person and once interest is expressed, you do get to contact the school directly and do all the negotiating with the school.

I used them for my current job. I didn't have to go through Angelina's to get the job, but I chose to do so to see how the service works.

My wages are higher than other FAOs at the school, my benefits better and my contract is very satisfying.

I had previously applied to this college directlly. I was turned down due to no openings. When I applied through Angelina's, there was an opening. This goes against the grain when the college could have saved money by hiring me directly. I was later told that they have a contract with Angelina's and they abide by the regulations that all hiring is done by them.

Mpho

[arioch36]

I could be too harsh on Angelinas. Personnally I much prefer Helen China Tefl site because you can contact directly with the school and you can directly see the school information/location.

Angelinas, many of the schools, you can't know their name or location until after applying . Or am I wrong?. Though not to hijak the thread of GAC

[englishgibson]

Mpho, can you give us something on the topic of ACT/GAC?

the latest is that some centers put you in shoes of an ACT preparation "monkey" and make you carry out the actual exams that aren't allowed on the mainland. have any of you guys had this happened to you? i have

cheers and beers

[englishgibson]

I have started this topic for inquiry, since I really like the accademic program. There's a clear goal in and it's much better than many other language mills or prep centers in China. I only hope that more of us will be interested in this program and more of us'll give our middle fingers to the centers that have been in show biz rather than education.

Now, I'd like to know if any of you on have had an experience supervising the ACT exams on mainland. There's quite a soap opera in between the Head Office and centers around and I've been previously told the ACT exams aren't allowed on mainland. And, that even as a "practice". Or, are they?

By the way, have any of you heard of Andrew Todd??? He is supposed to be the new "president" of this operation.

Cheers and beers to all

[arioch36]

The ACT scam. Of course, if you use the ACT name, have to give them their cut.
My understanding .. Only GAC centers allowed to do this, and they are to be proctored by ??? Chinese teachers??? save money? or other reasons?

Andrew Todd? Sydney or Shanghai? Any contact info?

Just found out that at my school, 20 students are crammed into a 3 bdrm apartment, the kitchen converted into a bedroom for the "teacher" who lives ther and "supervises them. Students are not given a key. Last Saturday night has students hanging out at 10:30, waiting for this guy to return so they could go home,

For this privilege, the students (their parents) pay 5,000 for about 8 months. 20 students, 5,000 RMB (for just 8 months) for an apartment that costs the school less then 2,000 per month

School cost, 24,000 RMB per year

School's take 100,000 RMB for 8 motnhs

[Neilhrd]

What Arioch has reported is appalling. However it is not the same in all GAC centres. In my centre the students live 3 or 4 to a dormitory in conditions which are good by Chinese standards and acceptable by western standards. Most British universities provide single rooms but my experience is that Chinese students are used to sharing and often more comfortable that way. If we get 3 or 4 good students in the same dormitory they push each other along, practice English together and generally do well on the course. Other facilities on the campus are quite good with a reasonably clean and cheap canteen and pleasant grounds. I have no idea how much the students pay for their accomodation.

I too am still confused by the relationship between GAC and ACT and uncertain whether we are allowed to teach it legally. I have been shown what I am told is a licence from the Guangxi government allowing us do so subject to GAC conditions. However it is Chinese and I can't guarantee its authenticity.

Andrew Todd is the Country Manager for China which means he is above Rebecca Tao and the other RAMs. He is based in Shanghai but whether that is permanently or on a visiting basis I am not sure. He is American and I am unclear whether his loyalty is to ACT in America or GAC in Australia. If, as I suspect, the marriage between the two is rocky that could be very important. Any information on this point would be appreciated.

[arioch36]

[englishgibson]

next week, a couple of my students are going to an "ACT exam" in HK, the only place in the area that is allowed to carry out those exams. anyway, these 2 students have to prepare. using our GAC materials WILL NOT HELP THEM. so, why are we called/marketed as the ACT prep center? my students were quick to notice that too. they're not stupid.

the question is; how long will these chinese biz people and their "authenic" lincenses last???

cheers and beers to the fine marketing strategy of chinese biz people

[Neilhrd]

I had a chat with a student this morning who was asking for help with ACT preparation. I told her I had to be careful because I am not sure whether ACT is legal in China or not and whether I am allowed to prepare her for the ACT in our GAC centre or not. She replied that she has seen adverts for ACT centres in other cities. So have I but I hav eno idea if they are genuine or bogus. I also know that the sale of ACT and SAT preparation books is tolerated in some cities and banned in others. I couldn't explain to her what is going on and felt a complete fool.

This mess has to be sorted out. It is time for all the international testing bodies, IELTS, ETS (TOEFL), GAC, ACT, IB etc etc to stop fighting each other and work together to persuade/force the Chinese government to open up education once and for all. Let the students and parents decide which are the most useful, valid and reliable tests. then we can all get on with teaching them instead of putting sticking plasters over the disaffection caused by idiotic mind games.

[Robin53]

I still think the GAC program leading to the ACT certificate is excellent preparation for Chinese students going to study abroad at colleges and universities. It prepares them well for what to expect in the way of assessments and standards in overseas universities.

The other problems all of us have experienced (and the students) are about local Chinese conditions which vary from school to school. Its up to individual teachers to handle these problems the best they can. I keep seeing discussion about the same problems here - problems between the Chinese DOS and the FT. In some cases this can lead to the FT being fired, mistreated, or not paid according to contract. The other problems are changes made to the GAC curriculum by the Chinese DOS such as shortening them, and lack of proper resources such as computers, libraries, and uncorrected mistakes in the GAC books. Also there is the problem of the GAC office in Shanghai changing results and setting requirements which are not communicated properly with the FTs.

The way I see it, many of these problems are about Chinese management structure where leaders are to be obeyed and those further down the ranks are not to ask questions but blindly accept. This is a very different management structure than in schools, colleges, and universities in other countries where communication between the ranks is encouraged and is much better than in Chinese schools. I think what is needed is a FT Academic Advisor in the head office in Shanghai who is available at all time to answer questions and fix academic problems direct with the FT's. This is certainly not being done at the moment. Communication seems to stop with the Chinese DOS and is a great opportunity for them to wave the stick and tell us to shut up and do what we are told.

If this situation existed in a company like EF, and the system was being changed and altered from school to school, EF International would simply close the school, and this is written in to the contract with the franchise-holders. Its still early days with GAC in China though, and I guess teachers like us trying to teach it and follow the rules are the pioneers. Good luck to you all in your different schools and different situations - good, bad or satisfactory.

[vikuk]

[GoPies]

I'm not sure why some have said the ACT exam cannot be conducted on the mainland.
I have taught GAC in China for 4 years. During Level 3 we timetable ACT Preparation as a subject. We discuss stategies and run mock exams. At the end of Level 3 the RAD comes from Shanghai to supervise the ACT exams.
My university advertises GAC as a program leading to US College entry because we have another program, Tertiary Orientation Program overseen by Macquarie Uni, which promotes entry to Oz unis.

[Neilhrd]

Thanks for that contribution Go Pie. But can I ask you you how you reconcile that arrangement with the timetable for American University applications? Our problem in Nanning is that students start the Foundation class in July and then Level 1 of GAC in September so that they finish Level 1 in Dec. They don't finish Level 2 until March because of the Spring Festival break. However the top American universities are demanding ACT scores as part of the application process which has to be completed by the end of December as I understand it. This is why we tried to hold ACT tests during Grade 1.

But we have been ordered by Shanghai not to do so. Some of my teachers were also allegedly told by Rebecca Tao that by taking part in the administration of ACT tests in December in previous years they were acting in contravention of the centre's licence and therefore illegally under Chinese law. Furthermore we have been ordered to change the centre's name from ACT Preparation Centre to GAC Preparation Centre. We have been banned from advertising ACT in any way. Gaye Pullen refused to attend a promotional evening in the summer at which we did so and on a subsequent visit Rebecca Tao tore down our advertising on campus which mentioned ACT in front of the staff and in an office which is used by students.. This was done without any warning, consultation or explanation. It not only caused a lot of administrative expense and inconvenience reprinting heading documents etc but also seriously unsettled the students. Some of them feel they have been conned and this is affecting their work rate on the GAC course as well.

If it is still relevant I am told that we can administer ACT tests after the completion of GAC Level 2. But Shanghai have given us no material or support to do this and in the light of their previous behaviour I have a strong suspicion that if we do the rules will be changed again and we will get into more trouble.

Do teachers from any other centres have any experience with these kinds of problems?

[GoPies]

Our timing is the same - Level 1 finishes in 2 weeks. Our students will then do IELTS preparation, but we teachers get a long holiday!
You are correct about the issues concerning US colleges. In the past, a number of our students have withdrawn before completion of GAC after receiving offers from US unis. We encourage the students to stay on - one girl got enough credits from her GAC score to go straight into second year in her US college. Another got a $25000 scholarship.
The other benefit is that the course is a good preparation for western education styles and hopefully will ensure success in their studies overseas.
Some of the students who have withdrawn reappear to take the ACT at the end of Level 3!

[arioch36]

A big problem is that GAC Chinese leadership does nothing to combat this false belief that unless you go to school immediately you will be doomed. It's take tests now, we must enter school next fall, etc. In reality many of these students would be better served by finishing all materials and tests, then taking tests in a timely fashion, and applying for colleges in November , when their is still a chance of them getting scholarships or financial help.

As I recall, haven't thought aboput it for a while, Spring applications are the second round of applications for American colleges.

I also see so many students happy because they are admitted into "colleges" that are not 4 yr degree granting institutions. Anyone can be admitted into many of these "colleges"