Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

cool

[Ms Bean]

First of all, the term "criminal record" is not defined.

Is a parking ticket part of your criminal record? Yes, in most U.S. States. Does it have any bearing on your behavior in China? Probably not.

Who in his right mind would even admit to any sort of offenses in his home country to a foreign government? Think about it. Habitual criminals are criminals because they have little regard for society. How can anyone expect a criminal to answer this question truthfully?

Felons are barred from acquiring a passport. (This may have changed since the last time I read about it in print media. I have no criminal record, so I have no interest of keeping abreast of such things).

Home countries should do a better job of keeping their reprobates at home rather than allowing them out of the country to take advantage of the unsuspecting. How in h*ll was Gary Glitter allowed out of the U.K. after his reprehensible acts?

Similarly, FAO's should be alert to bad behavior on the part of their guest FTs and act on complaints from FTs. On my second trip to China, there was an American who boasted to me that he could pick any lock ever made. (He was not a locksmith, so why would he possess such a skill?).

Later in the year almost all of the FTs in the apartment building were missing things from their apartment, and someoneone had place phone calls to a certain city in America in which no other FT had ever lived or had any relatives. This was reported to the FAO who did absolutely nothing about it. The guy is still living in the same apartment building, and none of the locks have been changed.

Would this guy admit to having a criminal record? What's the incentive?

[Sugar Magnolia]

Interesting,

Very good questions Ms. Bean. You deserve a prize.

I wonder how those whom you pinpointed in your diatribe feel? Perhaps no one will ever be willing to go out on the ledge and proclaim their love for the night that Christ was born.

Merry Christmas brethren.

Sugar

[Sugar Magnolia]

China and you should help them because they laid the foundation for later lines.

[Hansen]

"Although offenders convicted of murder had
the third lowest percentage of recidivism (52%) those
who were recidivists, had the highest rate of prior
convictions per sentence (4.41)."

Yes, murderers are among the better behaved repeat offenders. Only slightly more than half of them are repeat offenders, compared to numbers like six and seven /10 for other crimes.

Nearly 45 % of violent offenders have a previous conviction for violence.

A person, during a robbery, may be beaten into a permanent vegetative state or crippled for life without a murder or manslaughter taking place. Likewise for sexual assaults.

[Ms Bean]

[brsmith15]

Beyond,

Poll tax violation, huh? I think it should be paid by the Poles. After all, they keep all their money in their pole vaults.

(Sorry about that.)

[stillnosheep]

Hansen, please learn to present and interpret statistics properly.

The source you cite states that 52% of those sentenced for murder in Washington in fiscal 2007 had previously been convicted of a felony, not that 52% of people sentenced for murder will go on to commit a further felony, or indeed another murder. They are irrelevant to the task of attempting to ascertain how likely it is that convicted felon will go on to commit another serious offence. To do that we would need to we know the percentage of those people convicted of a felony who go on to commit another serious crime, and the source cited provides no indication of this.

Looking backwards into the personal history of serious criminals does not tell us how likely it is that others with the same or similar histories will go on to commit a serious crime. For example, 99.9% of all adult murderers in the US may well have previously drunk a can of coke, but that tells us nothing about how likely it is that a person who has drunk coke in the past will commit murder in the future. To ascertain that we would need to know how many coke drinkers there are in the US as well as how many murderers.

[eddy-cool]

[El Macho]

A "Yes/No" box on a visa form to answer the question "Are you a criminal?" is stupid.
Once the Chinese get serious about weeding out the "criminal element", they'll doubtlessly require an apostillated copy of a background check. Just like the Koreans do.

[Hansen]

Mr. Cool, Your moral rectitude is certainly commendable; however, there are cases involving people who may have had a scrape with the law many years ago, in their relative youth, such as drunk driving.

Suppose they haven't had a drink in 20 years. Should they still be punished by society for youthful folly? There are numerous cases like this involving people who have changed their ways.

The difficulty is for the government to figure out who is bad and who isn't. No criminal conviction for seven years and nine months should meet their criteria. Don't you agree?

Stillnosheep, Although I'm not quite sure what you are quibbling about, those who are interested can view the document and decide for themselves how problematic repeat offenders are.

Having testified for the prosecution in an attempted murder of two individuals, both of whom had killed before, I certainly have a view of things that may be different from yours. The material from Washington indicates that repeat offenders are a major problem in society. The results of the study correspond to my personal experience.

Future dangerousness is a topic with which I haven't kept up. A few years ago it was controversial. Talk with any incarcerated person in either a jail or prison. All proclaim their innocence. If you want to shut them up, ask how many crimes they committed for which they were never caught or punished.

Most would agree that felons, however penitent, may rightfully be considered undesirable. If China chooses to eliminate candidates on the basis of 20 year old convictions that are irrelevant to the individuals job performance today, I understand.

A convicted felon can obtain a law license in at least some states in the U.S. Evidence of rehabilitation is an important factor. Tookie
Williams was exectuted by the State, in part, because he never took responsibility for his crimes or expressed remorse. The fact that he murdered 3 Chinese immigrants to America wasn't an issue. Had he said, "I did it. I was wrong. I am so sorry" he might be kicking back with the cell block sissy at this very minute.

[arioch36]

Talking of the WhitJohn fellow down in Kunming shows another problem.

In China, they don't seem to care less what wrong a teacher has done. They don't renew the contract, but will never tell the PSB or SAFEA (and to the best of my knowledge provincial SAFEAs don't communicate with other provinces.

SO this guy whitjon can still be teaching at schools showingpictures of chinese students, and claiming to have sex with them. And the SAFEA will keep giving him work permits.

In the states many job application forms of companies may state "have you been convicted of any felonies in the past 5/10 years" I have no problem with a person with a felony charge from ten years ago getting a passport. Half the felons simply didn't have a good enough lawyer. Did Martha Stewart get a misdeameanor of felony conviction?

[The_Hanged_Man]

[stillnosheep]

[Hansen]

"Individual crimes in each category are classified as
either violent or non-violent. Nearly 7% of the 2007
sentences involved violent offenses. 64.5% of nonviolent
sentences involved recidivists compared to
violent offenses at 48.6%. However, among the current,
non-violent recidivist sentences, 19.9% of the prior
convictions were for violent crimes (Figure 5). Current
violent recidivist sentences had a higher percentage of
prior violent convictions at 30.2%. Of the sentences for
violent crimes, the highest recidivism rate was for the
�other� offense group at 75%, followed by robbery at
63.9%, then burglary at 53.5 (Table 4)."

30% of recidivists had a prior conviction for violent crime

"Most recidivist sentences involved multiple prior
convictions. There were a total of 72,894 prior sentences
resulting in a rate of 3.94 past convictions per recidivist
sentenced. Although offenders convicted of murder had
the third lowest percentage of recidivism (52%) those
who were recidivists, had the highest rate of prior
convictions per sentence (4.41). Property crimes
accounted for the second highest rate of prior offenses
per recidivist at 4.18 prior convictions per sentence."

Recidivist murderers had the highest number of previous convictions.