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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Dear 007,
"John, Uncle Scotty does not believe in women rights, and is against American feminism and imperialism!"
Umm, in the context of this thread - Saudis sponsoring a discussion on religious tolerance - that's kind of the point.
Regards,
John |
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desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Secondly, I don't think 'the world is falling for their cheap trickery' - rather they're falling for their (relatively) cheap oil and for the fact that the relationship between the KSA and the "Western" powers is mutually advantageous to all parties - for the time being. You keep the oil flowing, buy our outrageously expensive weaponry and prop up our interests in the region, and we'll turn a blind eye to whatever you get up to domestically. There really are no 'good guys' in this particular context. |
i totally agree with you on this
what i meant was when people around the world see it in the headlines that abdullah preaches about interfaith dialogue and religious tolerance etc most of them will think 'oh how nice of him'. honestly, i dont think ppl know much about what is going on in the ksa. for ppl who have been living in the ksa for a while it sort of becomes the norm after a while and it is hard then to reconstitute the 'pre ksa' state of mind
all im saying is that it is first and foremost country pr and not concern for the future of mankind that brought about this whole thing
whatever it is, it is well orchestrated and seems to work pretty well
btw did u guys know that the press was not allowed to attend the first meeting in spain? i wonder what the reason was for that. giving out fat checks perhaps? |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| More than a dozen world leaders are scheduled to attend the meeting, including President Bush; the British prime minister, Gordon Brown; the Israeli president, Shimon Peres; and the heads of seven Arab states. King Abdullah, the Saudi monarch, and Mr. Peres were both expected as guests of Ban Ki-moon, the secretary general, at a dinner Tuesday night, a rare chance for an encounter. |
Well, I'd prefer to see a few world leaders sitting around a table nattering than armies out in the field blasting the Krap out of each other...or worse, out of civilians. If a million words of dialogue can save even one human life then they're worth it.
In reality, will anything be achieved? Probably not. In fairness to Abdullah, however - a man who is seen very much as a reformer by most observers of the kingdom - he is aware that entrenched attitudes within KSA cannot be changed overnight. He is already aware that change, to be lasting and effective, must come slowly.
One way of realising his stated aim of greater religious tolerance, albeit very slowly indeed, is to be seen to sponsor an international think-tank on the subject. If this is even moderately fruitful, it would make it much easier for him to then present his reforms inside Saudi. In other words, pull the theological and moral rug from under the feet of the fundamentalists.
Maybe, on the other hand, it is a hypocritical gesture. But there is only one way to find out and that is to let it take its course.
Any idea with even a remote chance of promoting greater accord and tolerance in this rather benighted world of ours is worth a try.
If you will all pardon the expression, God loves a trier!!!! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| honestly, i dont think ppl know much about what is going on in the ksa |
That's for sure - in fact, I think that even most of us long-term residents don't really know what's 'going on in the ksa' even if we think we do.
That said, it's my belief that the overall impression of KSA among outsiders is quite negative - if anything, people seem to think it's worse than it really is - whatever that is. And of course this is all a PR stunt, but almost all diplomacy is just that.
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| the press was not allowed to attend the first meeting in spain? |
I'm not sure that this is at all exceptional. Plenty of such meetings are not open to the press, I'd imagine.
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| If this is even moderately fruitful, it would make it much easier for him to then present his reforms inside Saudi. I |
I think the whole shebang if aimed far more at an international than a domestic audience. Almost all Saudis I know - and these are by no means 'fundamentalists' - would be repelled at the thought of a Saudi leader sitting down with an Israeli head of state, particularly a war criminal like Peres. And I can't say I blame them. |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the whole shebang if aimed far more at an international than a domestic audience. Almost all Saudis I know - and these are by no means 'fundamentalists' - would be repelled at the thought of a Saudi leader sitting down with an Israeli head of state, particularly a war criminal like Peres. And I can't say I blame them. |
It may be. Whatever audience it is aimed at, I can't argue with your point about a Saudi king hobnobbing with an Israeli leader and such an event not going down well with the average Saudi.
Whatever the principle of it, however, if it were to save even one life I'm all in favour. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I just saw this and I couldn't resist adding it to this thread:
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Saudi Arabia has reportedly paid for the expenses of a high-level Israeli delegation to attend a two-day UN interfaith conference.
In an effort to promote respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all, including religious beliefs, Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah initiated a summit on interfaith cooperation at the United Nations headquarters in November.
The expenses of the Israeli delegation which consisted of more than 20 high ranking officials were covered by Riyadh, a Saudi official said on Sunday.
The official who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the information said that during the conference Israeli and Saudi officials held secret talks. |
Here's the whole article: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=77758§ionid=351020205 |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmmmm....... while I of course know that the state of Israel is the biggest recipient of international charity the world has ever known (yes, US taxpayers, I'm talking about you) this story, from an Iranian source and based on completely unverified rumours from an 'anonymous insider' strikes me as odd. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well, in politics you have to check what people are doing not what are saying or writing!
As far as Iran is concerned, Uncle Sam always is saying something and quietly and secrectly is doing the opposite!
Uncle Sam has been in bed with the Mullahs for almost 25 years!
Now, the Iranians are playing a dirty role against the magic kingdom and with the (hidden) help from Uncle Sam are preparing mines for Uncle Bandar and his associates!  |
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colt
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 86
Location: Milky Way
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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US taxpayers feel they are getting their money's worth. A reliable, democratic, freedom of religion partner in a dangerous area is viewd as worth it.
Don't forget Egypt and the Palestinians are also recipients of Uncle Sam's largess of an almost equal amount that the "country with no name" gets.
In any case, if the US gov't were to suddenly withdraw all aid, it would quickly be replaced by interntional Jewry and international evangelicals.
What's a few $billion among friends. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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US taxpayers feel they are getting their money's worth. |
Do they? Is that why the pro-Israel lobby does everything within its considerable power to ensure that the subject of US taxpayers' charity towards a state most of them could not point to on a map, is never - ever - subjected to public debate?
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| A reliable, democratic, freedom of religion partner in a dangerous area is viewd as worth it. |
I agree, which must be why so many Americans have a positive view of Turkey.
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| Don't forget Egypt and the Palestinians are also recipients of Uncle Sam's largess of an almost equal amount that the "country with no name" gets. |
Faulty syntax aside, this is quite simply false. In addition to the fact that Egypt gets less charity than Israel despite having more than ten times the population, any 'aid' it does get is basically a bribe for maintaining the highly unpopular 'peace' with Israel. Plus, given that the US actively aids Israel in its occupation and blockade of Palestine, the second part of your sentence shows that you simply haven't got a clue.
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| interntional Jewry and international evangelicals. |
"International evangelicals" eh? If you say so. Personally I'm all for it: 'Bout time dem 'international evangelicals' coughed up, that's what I say.... |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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colt, stop defending Uncle Sam, and listen to the voice of truth and reason.
Uncle Obama is coming.............new chapter will be written! |
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colt
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 86
Location: Milky Way
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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colt, stop defending Uncle Sam, and listen to the voice of truth and reason.
Uncle Obama is coming.............new chapter will be written! |
Yes, 007, I too had hoped that a new chapter would be written. Then Obama chose Rohm Emmanuel as his chief of staff, and my hopes began to fade....  |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, Teta Mia, in politics you have to read between the lines, and sometimes behind the lines! |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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... the pro-Israel lobby does everything within its considerable power to ensure that the subject of US taxpayers' charity towards a state most of them could not point to on a map, is never - ever - subjected to public debate?
Nevertheless, it is subjected to public debate. Read the New York Times.
Besides, self-righteous and antisemitic Brits here seem to forget that it was the British who installed Palestinian lands with massive numbers of Jews after WWII to add to the small numbers who were already living there. The Arabs launched attacks, whereupon the United Nations proposed borders. So you provided the original geopolitical problems (as usual--see Iraq, Kuwait, and other arbitrary British-drawn borders) without taking any subsequent responsibility for the safety of those living in and around the new borders. You left it up to the U.S., and the latter will never allow another anti-Jewish holocaust, whether you like it or not.
Last edited by Sheikh N Bake on Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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