Job Discussion Forums

[yamahuh]

My wife and I are currently teaching in Taiwan and are thinking of perhaps making the move to Japan. I've been wading through the threads and the FAQ stickys and they are immensely informative and ... well, immense (not to mention a bit out of date perhaps??)

I'm hoping that I can get fairly straight forward replies to reasonably straight forward questions;

#1 What would you consider to be a reasonable contract for someone who is University educated (B.A for me, Diploma for my wife) Tesol certified (both of us) and experienced teaching ESL in Asia (2 years in China and 2 years in Taiwan)?

#2 With our credentials where would you suggest looking; cram schools / public school system / language schools etc?

#3 How much should we consider to be the 'low end' in financial terms of any contract that may be presented?

#4 Are there any trustworthy people / agencies that we can contact to help in our search for jobs?

#5 If you could work anywhere in Japan, which place would you choose based on wages, cost of living, climate, weather, cleanliness etc

Also, I studied Okinawan Karate for many years up until about 8 years ago and would love to get back into it, is it fairly accessible for foreigners to train in a Japanese dojo?

From what I have been reading the Yen - Dollar ratio is making working in Japan quite attractive right now. The same can be said for Taiwan where I'm currently working about 20 hours a week and making about 10% more than I was last month in Canadian $$'s. Unfortunately the same can't be said for Korea which is where we were hoping to go next...


Thanks in advance,

Yamahuh

[fluffyhamster]

You are certainly qualified for entry-level work (i.e. around that average of 250,000 yen) in eikaiwa (private language/conversation schools) and as AETs (Assitant English Teachers) in public schools (mainly at junior high and elementary school level). (Cram schools (juku) here cater more for school subjects other than English, and are usually taught by Japanese people). The teaching load and expectations are generally higher in eikaiwa than for AETs, and you would need to work most weekday evenings, and Saturdays, whereas AETs can be finished by 5pm and usually have the whole weekend free; the problem however is that apart from the JET Program or some other "direct hire" job, most AET positions are now indirect employment via a dispatch agency, and these agencies can make the average eikaiwa employers look like saints...so what looks like an easy attractive ride may in fact work out to be one long tough scrimp n' save with a good scr*wing or two thrown in as a bonus. (And only you know what your low end/bottom line would be).

You could try for private school positions (which can sometimes pay 50% higher or more, than entry-level), but would not be assured of getting them due to lack of qualifications and/or experience in Japan.

Generally you will not get to hear on Dave's about the good jobs, only the so-so or bad; people get the good jobs through networking and being recommended by departing friends it seems, and it would hardly be in their interests to advertise too loudly about it, would it.

On a brighter note, dojo are pretty welcoming places if you're serious about the training (which you sound like you are!), but outside of major conurbations (i.e. Kanto and Kansai) it can be hard to find one that practises your style (especially if it isn't exactly big in its original hometown area). I used to practise Shotokan (as you probably know, more a "Japanese" rather than Okinawan style), and often had to settle for Wado-ryu or whatever "instead"!

[AgentMulderUK]

#1 What would you consider to be a reasonable contract for someone who is University educated (B.A for me, Diploma for my wife) Tesol certified (both of us) and experienced teaching ESL in Asia (2 years in China and 2 years in Taiwan)?

You will need a degree to get a job here anyway and to get a visa as part of the employment process.
Since we don't know your ages aor nationality we can't help with advice regarding what visas will be available to you. Working Holiday, etc etc.

250,000 yen a month each is ok.

#2 With our credentials where would you suggest looking; cram schools / public school system / language schools etc?

Public School (ALT) or language schools. Cram schools if you speak Japanese very well. All just need a degree.
TESOL certs are almost irrelevant here as most employers don't know anything about the certificate provider and why should they? It can only help of course, but don't expect it to open extra doors. I have had positive experiences with Western employers based in Japan who recognise it. As far as Japanese employers go you might just as well show them a certificate that proves you can make pasta.


#3 How much should we consider to be the 'low end' in financial terms of any contract that may be presented?

215,000

#4 Are there any trustworthy people / agencies that we can contact to help in our search for jobs?

No. Trust yourself and your own instincts. Apply direct to employers.


#5 If you could work anywhere in Japan, which place would you choose based on wages, cost of living, climate, weather, cleanliness etc

You will get 1000 different answers, none of which will help you much I suspect. It might be more helpful if you tell us what you want.

Obviously Tokyo is the most expensive, has more opportunities but more competition going for those opportunities. Salarys are fairly consistent nationally for foreign workers.

[Chris_Travel_the_world]

I concur with the above mentioned posts. The people who have the good jobs mostly get them through networking, really good teaching qualifications or excellent Japanese ability.

With your experience I think that you could definitely swing an entry level position which pays around 250 000 a month, which is great now but depending on how the future goes might suck again. I am from Canada too and all my friends who teach in Korea have saved a whole lot more than I have (I get paid about 290 000 a month) Japan has a much higher cost of living.

I say you need to make some predictions and go with that. If you think that the global economic market will continue to produce a strong yen, then move to Japan and send your money home. However, if you think that things will return to the way that there were a few months ago, go to Korea.

Either way good luck!

[yamahuh]

Thanks for the replies guys.
FluffyH I studied Shorin Ryu for over a decade in Canada and Shukokai for about 6 years in England. The only thing seemingly available where we are in Taiwan is Olympic style Tae Kwon Do (no hands) which just seems to be a complete waste of time from any practical application standpoint.

[Glenski]

#1 What would you consider to be a reasonable contract for someone who is University educated (B.A for me, Diploma for my wife) Tesol certified (both of us) and experienced teaching ESL in Asia (2 years in China and 2 years in Taiwan)?
"Reasonable" vs. standard.
Salaries have fallen in the past few years. Your experience unfortunately means little to most employers here, so you're going to have to start out in entry level work (ALT for dispatch agency or JET, or eikaiwa instructor). Expect 220,000 to 270,000 yen/month in most cases. You should get copayments into national health insurance, but many employers avoid that by counting only the number of hours you are in the classroom. Not reasonable but a fact of life. Expect local transportation to be paid. Expect eikaiwas to generally offer recycled housing furnished with recycled goods and the key money paid already. Some don't, so that is unreasonable. ALTs work in public schools mostly, so expect Sat and Sun off; eikaiwas will need to be open when students are available, so that means any day of the week (you still get off 2, but they may not be consecutive). Eikaiwas also usually have you working noonish to 9pm. That's reasonable for them.

For BA holders, you qualify for a work visa.
For diploma holders, that's a different story. Your wife may have to finagle its description to make immigration realize it is equivalent to a BA degree. Expect problems. Some people have resorted to using immigration lawyers. If she is Canadian, she may be eligible for a working holiday visa (gotta go home to apply for it, though). Or if you get a work visa, she can get a dependent visa and work only part-time.

#2 With our credentials where would you suggest looking; cram schools / public school system / language schools etc?
You both want to teach? Don't plan to work in the same school. It can happen, but it's not something you should expect. After a year in ALT or eikaiwa, you would consider direct hires in mainstream schools (mostly private).

#3 How much should we consider to be the 'low end' in financial terms of any contract that may be presented?
I've seen ridiculous contract ads for as little as 150,000 yen/month for FT work. Don't take it! Settle for nothing less than 250,000 unless it is a place where the standard of living forces a lower salary (like Okinawa).

#4 Are there any trustworthy people / agencies that we can contact to help in our search for jobs?
Don't bother using an agency. Hunt yourself. It has nothing to do with trustworthiness.

#5 If you could work anywhere in Japan, which place would you choose based on wages, cost of living, climate, weather, cleanliness etc
My choices and yours are likely to be totally different. What sort of climate do you prefer/hate? What sort of "cleanliness" do you expect to tolerate? Japan is usually very clean. Since thee are two of you looking for work, I'd concentrate on the bigger cities just for the sake of percentages.

[originaloli]

I've recently been in a similiar position, so a few words,

I think most posters on this forum have been here a while and sometimes forget what it's like right from the start. You can easily search through the forum history to dredge up the legal requirements and whatnot, plus everyone will trot them out. There's no lies there. However, it isn't the full story. The sticking point is visas. End of discussion. Getting a job in japan as an english teacher will almost always require a 'proper visa'. Go onto websites and have a look. Some of them have depressing (though useful) search functions which show you the facts. I calculated that roughly one in twenty-five jobs do not require a 'proper visa'. Even worse in Tokyo. You might want to live outside of Tokyo (countryside/provinces are not my cup of tea) in which case it will be better. Not good, but better.

Essentially there are a dozen or so companies that hire from overseas and so specifically make a point of sponsoring visas for any old person they let past interview. You'll walk the interview if you have experience. Bad news here - it'll be an unreasonable job. Note that it will be fairly standard for entrance level in Japan, though. There are crooked (though legal-ish) practices with a lot of employers. As was mentioned before, they dodge the NHI contributions by only counting classroom time and soforth. Not all employers, but almost certainly one of yours. Expect them to give you the bare minimum of treatment under law. Bear in mind too that the Japanese work at an insane level by European standards. Where my g/f works, it's common for 10 hour days to be put in and people are rarely off when sick.

Also, most big firms hire from white-majority anglophone countries. They may find you upset their applecart by applying from Somewhere Else. ECC had no idea how to deal with the concept of someone who was in Tokyo without a working visa (though certainly capable of getting one). They have no real reason to be set up for it and they don't want to bend. Shane on the other hand were very helpful and professional about the whole thing. Any of those companies may want to place you anywhere in Japan. If you don't mind working outside of Tokyo you have a much better chance of finding sponsorship. Remember, you're not looking for a job, you're looking for a visa.

I worked as a courier in London for many years. My working conditions there were far below what I expect when I start work here next year. I didn't mind it so much because I got a lot of satisfaction from couriering. I hope it will be the same with teaching in Japan.

[yamahuh]

[Glenski]

[originaloli]

Yes. I am saying that only one out of roughly every twenty five employers, in Tokyo, is considering candidates with existing working visas at present. One that you can show them and say "look, there it is". Preferably in your gaijin card. Now, that's only the people advertising in the English language, granted. I can't read Japanese well enough to tell you otherwise. For similiar reasons it might well be true that things might be easier with a personal recommendation but this is hardly the norm is it? It's by no means uncommon for there to be no positions advertised in Ohayo Sensei for two or three issues. Lots of employers will renew visas happily but they want you to be here with a working visa first.

I used the term 'proper visa' because that is what one invariably sees on job advertisements. A 'proper visa' appears to be a working visa. No exceptions. I spent about two months looking for jobs (with varying degrees of vigour). My experience was that employers are not that interested in working holiday, spousal, etc visas. They're really unreceptive to the idea of you applying with them as the guarantor. I would guess that's because you could be a muppet, you'll take four to eight weeks to start work and it'll cost them time and hassle. With a flooded market, they can afford to be very picky.

Things might well be different outside of Tokyo. I have a very good reason to need to be in Tokyo. Even if not, I simply couldn't stand a year working in the provinces. That's just me though.

[Brooks]

huh? A spouse visa means that your Japanese spouse is the guarantor (weird it is).
Do you mean dependent visa?

[fluffyhamster]

[Glenski]

[yamahuh]

[fluffyhamster]