Job Discussion Forums

[Jack Walker]

This thread is for all discussions concerning the Polish language,questions,answers,daily life in Poland etc,etc.

The customwer service thread is gone way off mark and hopefully this will clear it up.

Have fun.

[bje]

[Jack Walker]

Yes,you're right.

Let me begin:kogo/co...what's up with that?

[dynow]

well, if this is the polish langauge thread, i have a question:

as far as I know, or knew rather, when using "jako", there is no conjugation.

so, for example:

Chcialbym pracowac jako lekarz.

but, i recently read a sentence like this:

Czy wynik dobrze charakteryzuje pana jako przyjaciela?

why przyjaciela, and not przyjaciel?

also, and this one continually plagues me:

i see many instances in polish where "with" is omitted, and only the conjugation follows.

for example, "Ide z Marcinem".

but

here's a sentence without "with" (z), but conjugates accordingly:

"Prosze uzupelnic zdania odpowiedną formą czasownika.........."

My question is, quite simply, how do I know when to use "z", and when to omit it, and simply use the appropriate conjugations that follow "z"?

[Jack Walker]

It's interesting how the Polish language discussion dried up as soon as the other thread was cleaned up.

Goes to show how you can't categorize spontaneity sometimes!

[dynow]

it's even more interesting how my questions still haven't been answered....this post is 4 days old. not one bite.

i'm starting to get a slightly better grasp, or shall i say "feeling" for komu/czemu, but not from a Polish teacher's explination, simply from seeing it over and over and noticing patterns.

I wish i could spend all of my English lessons telling my students, "it's kogo/co guys! There, now you have it."

[Jack Walker]

Yes Mr.Dynow,I think your question stumped some of the Polish experts on here.

It would be great if we could all throw the old kogo/co act at students when they ask a grammar question in English class.

Unfortunately,most of them expect the grammar rules of English to come nicely wrapped in a box which can be opened and closed at any time to reveal all the answers to all their queries.

[citizen X]

[Jack Walker]

Post your ZUS rants here.Everyone knows it's the spawn of the Dark Master!

[dynow]

citizen X

although I appreciate the effort, i don't think it's any more clear to me.

all you have done with "jako" is write, "well, it's kogo"....."well, it's kto".....and for me, that never ever helps me out. i could have looked up that answer in a grammar book. like i have said before, i can do most declensions in Polish without thinking to myself, "oohhhh, it's komu/czemu". I just feel it and i can use it. some things i can't feel, and the old explination of "it changes like that because it's "X" case or "Y" case never really gets me anywhere most of the time. To be honest, the example sentences you wrote made it a little more clear. It seems as though when you're writing a sentence making a more direct reference to someone, there is no conjugation. The other way is less direct, causing a different case, but i don't know.

regarding "with"........i don't think what you wrote holds true all the time.

Just to throw an example out there, using "z" when referring to what:

"Co zrobimy z tym samochodem."

This sentence uses "z", it's referring to "what", and it conjugates and operates exactly like "who".....just like "Ide z Marcinem".

so unless i'm writing that sentence wrong, which i doubt I am, it would be one example of many that would make this

[hrvatski]

Czy wynik dobrze charakteryzuje pana jako przyjaciela?

Both 'pana' and 'przyjaciela' are objects of 'charakteryzuje', which is why they're both in accusative form.

You could establish the pattern [transitive verb] [object of transitive verb in corresponding case form] jako [2nd object of transitive verb in identical corresponding case form]

Other examples:

On powiedział mi jako koledze.
Nie uznawali tego jako sposobu na zdrowy tryb życia.
Mam drugi spadochron jako zapasowy.

In the following sentences the nouns following 'jako' are not objects of the preceeding verbs, so do not undergo any case changing, they are in nominative form.

Pracuję jako nauczyciel.
On rozmawia z nią jako przyjaciel.

With the 'z' enigma, you just have to learn how it is with each verb, much like learners of English have to learn if they should use gerund or infinitive verb forms after certain verbs. If you do something with someone, then you always have to use 'z' and that's about the most steadfast rule with this. Two random examples of sentences with and without 'z'.

Ugotowała obiad z najlepszymi składnikami.
Dziweczynka pokolorowała obraz kredkami.

[Scawie]

[dynow]

http://www.rosettastone.com/personal/languages/polish

i had used Rosetta Stone about 3 years ago when i first started studying polish, and I believe it helped me quite a bit. it wasn't a fantastic program, it was an old version, but it taught me how to pronounce polish words and introduced a lot of useful vocabulary. at the time, they didn't have anything beyond level 1.

i just checked on a whim the rosetta stone website, and they now have an updated version with better software with Polish levels 1, 2 and 3.

does anyone have any experience with the new versions? these new versions are between $260 and $280 per level. I'm sure there is a......."cheaper" way of getting them......

sometimes it's just nice to have a study tool that is interactive rather than just staring at the book or writing countless sentences.

[hrvatski]

Girlfriends are very interactive