Job Discussion Forums

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

be aware that for 4th year students, they are often expected not to be in class. Next semester they will not be in class, they are supposed to be self studying for graduate exams or finding a job. This semester many also are working , probably many more tell the school they are working , and are not. I hate teaching 4th year classes for this reason.
Guess I've been lucky. At all my previous colleges, if I failed a student they had to pay and retake the test the next semester. If they failed 3 classes (I think that's the number) they had to take the entire semster over. So i have never had my grades changed. When the students know that the dep't is behind the foreign teacher it makes teaching a whole lot easier and more rewarding. The teaching I have always hated the most is where the dep't doesn't care

Ms Bean · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 110 Location: Wilmington

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

BTW bigest class ... 145 students for oral english. The class was actually ok ... 3 marketing classes thrown together. Charged the school 8 overtime hours to give them their final tests. My contract that year had a separate lertter saying no classes bigger then about 35 Very Happy

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

How many of us are professionally trained teachers who are actually qualified to teach language? It's quite possible that, in our case, the failures are our fault. How many hours of class prep time do you spend to make sure you offer a lesson suitable to the students in your class?

I teach in two areas, one a professional area in which i am fully qualified, not only by many years of work in the field, but also by specialized education. Oral English is another matter. I'm no linguist. I know that in my area of specialization, the students receive training that is useful in the workplace. Oral English is another matter.

So before you start slaughtering students with your red pencil, ask yourself how many schools in your country would employ a psychology major to teach a class in language acquisition.

Lhenderson · Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 135 Location: Shanghai JuLu Road

Just sing my personal ditty for teaching:

"Give an A, I stay.
Give a B, they don't like me.
Give a C, they complain to Mr. Li.
Give an F, I'm F'd."

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Ms Bean · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 110 Location: Wilmington

Ms Bean · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 110 Location: Wilmington

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Ms Bean,

What's to wonder about? I'm qualified to teach in a specialized area of technical English. I have many years of experience in that field. Additionally, besides the general training I received, I studied electives specifically related to the language of the field.

As for oral English, I have a certification; however, I do not believe that I am nearly as effective teaching Oral English as technical English in my field of expertise.

My question regarding the qualifications of teachers here was addressed to the entire board, not any one individual. I was recently told by an FAO that only a few FTs were not professionally trained teachers. I find that hard to believe. "Professionally trained" indicates at least a bachelor's degree and a teaching credential, if not a master's degree.

Do most FTs hold those kind of credentials?

If a teacher in the U.S. failed half the class, that would usually be a commentary on the teacher, not the class. There are a multitude of issues facing these students as well as FTs.

Most of their language training has been from non native speakers; consequently, they have an obviously lower level than we might expect.

The style of teaching is often quite different. I spend a lot of time teaching my students how to study and challenging them to figure out solutions, rather than simply giving them information.

Supposedly, successful language learners are highly motivated and involved in the tasks designed by the teacher. That is often not the case in China. Few students even care about learning English. How much sense does it makes for an FT to develop sophisticated teaching plans for a class of students in which only 10-15% even participate?

In the future,I plan to start meeting with a professionally trained Chinese English teacher to develop more effective classroom strategies.

As for failing students, due to various factors, I don't see the wisdom of so doing. Those who I have failed continue along their path. They are not held back. They are not compelled to achieve a certain level of English proficiency to advance, so they receive no practical benefit from a failing mark.

I remain unconvinced that, regarding Oral English, the fault is not mine, nor that of the system, rather than the fault of the individual student. If I had a class of 10 students who could all receive the help they deserve, possibly not a one would fail. Blood running in the streets is not a sign of good teaching, as far as I'm concerned.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I don't teach college level so I guess my opinions are just that. But the way I see it, college (and high school) are preparing the young men and women for life. In life, they can't laze about and do their jobs in a half-assed manner. Well, they CAN obviously and some can actually get away with it. But most cannot do this and keep that job for very long. Failing a student is sending a clear message to them that they didn't do their job as a student in your class. If the school wants to ignore your grade and/or not put much stock in it, so be it. You've done your job by assessing the student fairly based on class attendance, classroom participation, and ability to pass examinations in a reasonable manner. If the school passes a failed student anyway and it really burns your butt, then you either need to raise a stink about it or move on to another school that may take you seriously in the job you are paid to do.

But as stated in previous posts, not all FTs here are professional teachers. They are teaching to get by so they can enjoy other pleasures that China has to offer. They may not care one way or the other about whether or not students came to class and so they play the game and just pass all students and don't lose a night's sleep over it. To each their own.

Ms Bean · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 110 Location: Wilmington

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Kev

But

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

"In life, they can't laze about and do their jobs in a half-assed manner. Well, they CAN obviously and some can actually get away with it. But most cannot do this and keep that job for very long."

Totaly wrong. They will keep that job even though they may never learn how to, or even care about doing it right. Take a walk around your school offices. How many of the workers are sitting there playing computer games. Often, they will not even stop to do for you what they are supposedly being paid to do.

In my school, the classes I teach are not part of the core curriculum. I give my own tests prior to the real tests given by the school. It is that way in other top quality high schools as well. These folks are not going to let a foreigner impact a Chinese student's life in a meaningful way. Failing them is a joke because the classes don't even count. I suppose there are exceptions to this but I'm generalizing.

A high school in my area is one of the top high schools in all of China. It has an arrangement with the best universities in China. A certain % of the top students are admitted to those universities automatically. Do you think that any parent or school administrator would allow an FT to impact a students admission to one of those schools? Do you think that a sociology major should be allowed to fail or give a low grade to a student in Oral English if that grade could prevent the student from getting into a top university?

FTs, let's not take ourselves too seriously.

smitten13 · Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 293 Location: Philippines

Lhenderson.

There should be more FTs like you working in China.

I can't stand your attitude, but you are exactly what the Chinese deserve...

Am I being harsh?? Question

TexasHighway · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 779

If you are working in a language mill or other kind of "head, shoulders, knees and toes" type of "white monkey" job, it probably serves no useful purpose in failing students. But in a respectable university position, we all bear some responsibility in maintaining some integrity in the grading system. i know if I gave everyone an A, I would be called into my dean's office and probably would not have a job very long. As with most foreign teachers, I am probably a bit generous in the grades I give out. In order to fail my class, a student almost has to try to fail; so the failures are few and far between. But I certainly would never pass a student who never comes to class, doesn't show up for the final exam, or otherwise just doesn't give a sh*t.