Job Discussion Forums

[kirsteen]

From reading the postings about working in Brunei with CfBT, you would think it was heaven!! WHO is posting these? CfBT management? I work in Brunei and I would like to share my perspective with jobseekers. If you are lucky enough to be posted into a 'good' school (none of them are very good, by the way) it may be bearable to work in Brunei, although never stimulating professionally, culturally or socially. Brunei is a deeply conservative, colonial backwater.
If you are unlucky enough to be posted into a bad school, your teaching life will be hell. Foreign teachers are treated as second class citizens by the Bruneians and get no support from the school hierarchy and little or no support from CfBT. Be warned.
Working in Brunei suits those who are seeking an easy life , a kind of premature retirement, and those who hanker after the old colonial days when you can have gin and tonic on your lawn and little or no contact with the 'natives'.

[BOBBYSUE]

Well you're entitled to your perspective Kirsteen, but for a lot of us who have worked elsewhere, CfBT Brunei is as near to heaven as English teaching can get! And no, I'm not in the management, but I have been elsewhere and I recognise a good organisation and set up when I see one. I actually started writing on this forum because a couple of people had written negative things about Brunei that nearly put me off coming. I'm so glad I came anyway and I wanted to help other people to get a more balanced view.
Sure, you have to get used to the fact that you are foreign and don't have the same control over your life as you do in your home country. That's pretty much par for the course and shouldn't come as a surprise unless it's your first time overseas. Try living in Japan, Korea or the Middle East and you'll find it's a lot harder there (try being a foreigner with a different religion, race and accent in a public school in your home country, for that matter). And in those places you don't get all the help that CfBT Brunei gives you. And considering the money and the housing, teaching two hours a day five days a week, for the same salary that the school principal gets, is not that bad and doesn't really make you a second class citizen. I agree that some schools are much tougher than others, but even the most challenging are hardly tough compared to even mediumly tough schools in the UK, Australia or NZ. I accept though that your opinion will be affected by what you have done before coming here.
I genuinely love it here and almost every other teacher I've met feels the same. I've also found lots of opportunities for professional development. Have you taken CfBT's free ICELT course or gone for one of the new lead teacher posts? That should help keep you from getting bored professionally. And as for interacting with the locals, I do and find that they are extremely friendly. It probably helps, though, not to expect them to think you are something really special and then be disappointed when they don't.
CfBT are actually quite good if you ask them for help...try talking to the welfare officer, for example...I've found her to be very supportive. Or make friends with other teachers and get involved in some of the sporting and social activities that don't involve a G&T on the lawn....there are lots of them and plenty of down to Earth teachers and their families who are not of the colonial type at all.
Without a doubt the worst thing about many expat places are the bitter people who refuse to leave but still spend the whole time whingeing about how unhappy they are...they really bring everyone else down. There are far too many of them in the Middle East and, thankfully, not so many here. To avoid becoming one of them I'd try one more time to really make the most of Brunei, you'll be amazed how a place you thought you hated one year can be great the next. If it still doesn't suit you, maybe put it down to a bad match between you and Brunei and move to somewhere different....but I wouldn't judge CfBT or Brunei too harshly until you've been at your next posting for a few months!

[celtica]

Perhaps a bit harsh Kirsteen...and maybe a bit too rose-coloured for me Bobby Sue....

I actually agree with some of what both of you say ...

I think I wrote somewhere in all these postings that both the positive and negative comments that people write here are true. After all, everyone has their own set of experiences and reactions. Any combination can make what may be a terrible experience for one person, a challenge for another and a satisfying result if overcome/met/accomplished

AND I always check the 2 part list - what am I getting out of/putting up with by being here?

People have very different reasons for coming here. and a lot of those who stay and find the positive have a family to raise and can see many benefits for their children compared to where they have come from. Therefore, some personal/professional considerations that you mention Kirsteen, aren't as important as what the lifestyle gives them and their family.

If there is nothing on the list that is good ...if it is hell, then that's usually when I pack up and go. If there are still good bits that help me achieve something I have been aiming for, then I stay. All the rest in between I make what good of it that I can.

Sometimes I wonder how I could stay another day, other times I wonder how easy it will be to make the change and leave.

What people have written here is always going to be biased by what kind of person they are, what they have experienced and how they have handled those experiences.

Sounds like yours have not been so great Kirsteen and I can easily understand how you would feel the way you do. I have met others who have felt the same and have left very quickly. I have supported them through their difficult times, but have not been so affected myself.

That doesn't make either them or me right or wrong.

It just makes us different.

[jsteventon]

Hi

I am definitely NOT CfBT management! Why should I be? Just because I choose to write positive things on this site? I have also always said that my postings are MY viewpoint only - I reiterate what many others have said - Brunei, in my opinion, is a great place to live and work - and I have always found CfBT to be just fine...

I completely disagree with Kirsteen's points...but I do recognise that she has every right to post her opinion. if that is how she finds things, so be it..I do not understand why she finds it necessary to be so slating if people choose to write positive things, which are their honest opinions.

Hopefully, all posters are free to write their opinions and not be slated for being positive - or negative, if they so wish.....

JS

[beetlil]

Hi all,

I've been reading all the posts about Brunei and decided I'm really interested. So I sent off a cv and got an email from the Australian agent that she would get on to it asap but haven't heard anything again for a couple of weeks. Is that normal?

Maybe some of you can help me with any ideas - if you think I would qualify - and let me know what the process is?

I have a BA in Communication from an Aus uni, an Honours degree in communication and literature and TESOL.

I have taught English communication at first year uni level for 6 years - many of who were international students.

I spent 3 months in Korea teaching ESL at uni and in elementary winter camps and have also taught ESL at a high school here in AUS for the last 18 months.

HOWEVER, I don't have a graduate diploma in ed or equivalent and am wondering if I should spend this year getting that in order to improve my chances. Any ideas?

I have 4 kids aged 12, 14, 16 and 20 and the middle 2 are going into years 10 and 12 in Aus this year. So if i can get a contract for later 2009 or beginning of 2010 that would really suit me as my 16 year old will have finished school and will be going to uni and the 14 year old (by then 15) wants to leave and learn how to be a chef.

Basically, I am just after any advice from those of you who have been through the selection process and moved your families abroad. Will it be an issue that i'm a single mum? etc etc etc....

I'm actually flying to Vietnam this weekend and have a day stop over in Brunei on the way there (Jan 4) and on the way back (Jan 18) so if anyone also has ideas on what we could do for a day to get a feel for the place I would also really appreciate that.

Cheers

[BOBBYSUE]

Hey, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm pretty sure you need to be a state qualified teacher with at least three years of post qualification experience. On the positive side, there are several single mums here and CfBT are very supportive. The cheap cost of home help is very important! PM me or, better still, find a single mum amongst the teacher interviews on the cfbt.org website (there are at least 2) and follow the links to write to them direct. Good luck!

[kirsteen]

Dear oh dear! bobbySue and Jsteventon, I am more and more convinced you must be CfBT management. And so patronising! To put the record straight, I have taught on ICELT courses so I am hardly going to attend ICELT am I? As for my prior experience, this is my twelfth overseas posting so I don't need your little lesson on crosscultural awareness either. The great majority of the people I know here share the views I expressed in my last posting ie NO, NO, NO..don't go to Brunei.
The more overseas experience people have, the more likely they are to award their Brunei sojourn a resounding zero because they have points of comparison.
Why do I suspect the provenance of the postings from my two buddies mentioned above? The Brunei Ministry of Education is putting immense pressure on CfBT to recruit more international supply teachers to prop up their ramshackle schools. If CfBT don't produce the goods, they may be out of Brunei before long. CfBT Brunei management are so desperate to get new teachers that they are paying 2500 Brunei dollars to any current teacher who manages to recruit one of their friends to come to Brunei. I find that somewhat distasteful actually and I don't know anyone I hate that much!
I do not deny that there are a few people who hole up in Brunei and spend twenty years living in a backwater but I would strongly advise jobseekers to think long and hard before going to work in Brunei because BobbySue and Jsteventon are bizarrely dewey-eyed. I have never met any teacher in Brunei who feels as they do.

[lacsap]

CFBT employ the best part of 200 teachers here, so inevitably not everyone will be happy. Some schools are better than others indeed, although even that changes over time. Everyone used to fight to work at Science College, now with the arrival of a difficult Principal, they are all trying to get out of there. Lumapas school was known as the Gulag for a while, but again, a new Principal has turned it around. It's cyclical. As for CFBT not being here in the new future, people were saying that in the early 90's when I arrived. Still here though. Although Kirsteen is expressing a valid viewpoint, it is definitely not a majority one. And please don't dismiss my view on the grounds that I may be a management stooge, because that is not the case. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but then the question arises, why are you here? It isn't for everyone, depends on what you have known before, what your family situation is and many other factors. There are a lot of people who have done three or even four stints in Brunei, people who return from their own country, or from HK having found it too stressful there. To others reading this, don't be put off by negative views, form your own opinion, PM me or anyone else on this thread. And Kirsteen, lighten up!

[celtica]

How long have you been here Kirsteen? And when are you leaving...as I presume you must be, if you dislike it so much?

[BOBBYSUE]

Oh dear Kirsteen, I think you've just proved yourself to be one of those jaded expat teachers we all know and dread. I suspect you are on your 12th posting because every country and company has turned out to be a bitter disappointment and it has always been ALL THEIR FAULT!!! LOL!!!

I have made a lot of friends since arriving here and almost every CfBT teacher I have met enjoys their life here and plans to stay for the forseeable future. You should bear in mind that when you go around bleating you generally find people agree with you to make your boring rant stop, then pity you behind your back.

That said, the other two members of the paranoid lunatic fringe will probably seek you out and befriend you, and this WILL be genuine!

Why do you have a problem with CfBT paying us a referral fee for recommending friends and ex colleagues? All other companies pay agencies, so why not pay us? It's not as though it's a secret. Sorry, but you whinge on about your sorry life on the one hand and find opportunities to improve it distasteful on the other. Probably time to do yourself and everyone else a favour and move on....

[jsteventon]

Kirsteen - I will repeat for your benefit - I am NOT CfBT management! Just a happy teacher in Brunei - though I am very glad you are not in my school as I know you would be trying to bring down the very positive morale that exists there!

As for your suggestion that we are writing positive comments so that we can pull in recruits for cash - that is definitely not the case! I have been writing positive things about CfBT in Brunei since July 2007 - a very long time before the new system of paying recruiters was introduced. Also, my guess is that anyone who reads our positive comments will apply through the CfBT rep in their respective country - not through us at all.

I think anyone reading Kirsteen's comments will by now have formed a clear idea of the type of person writing them. As someone else said, let's hope he/she does everyone a favour and moves on!

[Isisgato]

After a l-o-n-g absence I peeked at the board re Brunei again .........
Well, I spent a couple of years there a few years ago, and my experience is much more in line with Kirsteen's than anyone else's who posted. I found the educational system ( with regards to English Language anyway ), in general appalling --- all it was was a question of 'teaching the test' with dreadful textbooks. 'Sump' classes of forty-plus kids at the lower end of the alphabet, while the A, B, and C groups sailed along with less than twenty students. Reams of frantic, pointless paperwork. Total lack of support, affability, collegiality and not to put too fine a point on it, even the most basic politeness from the vast majority of the Bruneian staff members. And, to be honest, most of the CfBT-ers I spoke to found exactly the same thing. Away from the educational system, I found the country excruciatingly boring - the Yacht Club and the Royal Brunei Airlines Club replete with impenetrable little groups and cliques, the Mabohay Club depressingly decrepit, Jerudong Club O.K. but almost invariably empty. Away from these clubs, what do you have ? As I said on my posting a couple of years ago just after I left.........P.T.A. meetings and church socials. If that's your scene, good for you, but it ain't mine .........That leaves Linggi's.........well, that was ONE positive aspect of life in Brunei --- tho' of course it's not actually IN Brunei ! At least you could meet and talk to locals there. As for meeting Bruneians ? It'd be easier for Captain Kirk to socialise with the Clingons ! I've worked in several places in the world, and never met such a stand-offish, parochial,
gloomy bunch. I remember someone saying, 'Well, if Thailand sells itself as 'the country of the smile' then Brunei could easily call itself 'the country of the scowl.' That guy was right. All in all, had Brunei been my FIRST expat job, then it would have been a case of 'NEVER AGAIN' --- I found the place soulless, dull, uninspiring, unfriendly; too many 'ins' and 'uns' and 'less-es' for me.

[celtica]

Much of what you say has truth in it Isisgato. I too hate the "teach the test" bias here (the textbooks have almost all changed thank goodness). But I take that as a challenge to see how I can teach the kids in different ways that still give them the skills needed to succeed at their tests. And it appears I am having a modicum of success. It appears that test results have shown my classes are doing OK.

Over the last year or so, I have had teachers coming to me and asking about the ways I teach, the resources I use and they have started teaching the same. They have frequently come to me with their problems when implementing my ideas, I have shared my methods of overcoming them and they have tried and succeeded too. I have been here a number of years and have slowly seen resources change, attitudes to different methods of teaching become more accepting and far more interaction within the department. While I don't believe it is all because of CfBT teachers, we have always had a very good rapport with our colleagues - very positive and friendly. We have gone out of our way to make it so and have had good responses.

Sure, there are problems, but there were in other countries I have taught too. And in those countries, as here, I have found people very accepting of change if it wasn't forced down their throats by others who thought they were better than the locals and were the only ones who really knew how to teach. I find my colleagues genuinely desirous of having their students succeed and maybe the methods leave something to be desired, but all change takes time. I think there is a lot of push for change happening at the moment under the new Minister of Education and a lot more is expected of CfBT and local staff to take part in those changes.

Unfortunately the frustrating 'pointless' paperwork remains.

There is huge pressure put on schools, purely because of the numbers of young people. ( One figure I read in 2003 was 45% of the population under 15!) It seems like every year a couple of new schools open up ... whereas 36 was a common class number, now I have 23, 22 and 28 (a G class) . So that is changing too.

As for the social scene ...yes I agree it is very limited and after a number of years, it does get frustrating - the desire for something different . But then I have an 'at home' with all the parents and kids together. We enjoy a dinner/luncheon together and unwind at home with good food, drinks and company. The genuine closeness you develop with good friends here is something I really value . Perhaps something we lose touch with when we are in more wide open countries with a huge variation of activities. Here, you have to draw on the 'inner person' rather than external entertainment. (- as it doesn't exist).

Having said that, I leave the country every holiday just to get the change and entertainment I don't get here!

Aren't I lucky that I can afford four out of country holidays a year and still save? ........

[BOBBYSUE]

Well it is interesting to hear from you Isi. It was your posting all that time ago that nearly made me not come to Brunei, and I am sooo glad it didn't in the end. I'm glad if you've found somewhere that suits you better and I don't doubt that what you describe is the experience you had while you were here. However I do take issue with a couple of your points.
All the CfBTers I have met since being here have been remarkably positive about the country and the company...much more so than other places I've been. And as for the teaching...well, that's surely what CfBT is here for. If the education system were perfect, there would be no need for us...and that's the challenge and the whole point of taking the job.
You say most other CfBT people agreed with your opinions, but as I mentioned to Kirsteen, people usually avoid confrontation with someone who is going off on one...it's exhausting and pointless, and easier (and more tactful) to agree. I would guess that if you'd been ranting about how great the place was, they'd agree with you too. The point is that here many people tell you great things about the place before you've said anything...to me that really says something.
I am also very interested in your points about the yacht clubs, etc. I wonder what that certain, intangible something is that you were looking for when you went to them. A sense of fun? Some hustle and bustle and raw, crowded energy? In the Middle East, for example, the clubs are much more crowded with ex pats of every industry and job description. And that pretty much means that we teachers enjoy the same status, at the bottom of the pile, that we have at home when it comes to affording the membership, and anything to eat and drink once there. Here, the club has enough laser dinghies and canoes for everyone, and we teachers are able to have boats, moor them, and enjoy good food, with our own bottle of wine, and plenty of good company. Not sure what you mean about the cliques as I've only been here a short time and found everyone to be very friendly and open. Finally, I've spent some time in wonderful Thailand but the land of the smiles is not quite all that it seems. There is a lot of violence and aggression under the surface and increasing hostility to foreigners. I still love it but I'd much prefer to live and bring up kids in Brunei, and use my strong currency and good holidays to visit Thailand and other areas. Here, I actually find the people very smiley and friendly, and many of the local teachers and school principals esteem us greatly. They are not as envious as they might be, when you consider that some of us are probably not all that amazing in the classroom, and we earn the same as a school principal, plus we get all the house, private education for kids at the best schools in town, etc.
I think after all the places I've lived and taught, it really does come down to the attitude within you and the way you look at a country. I've been to great fun countries full of nightclubs where it's much harded to meet people than here. Here the whole community brings you in, precisely because there aren't any nightclubs unless you want to drive an hour over the border. And I've been to countries where the teaching situation is "easier" but people have to work "proper" hours and so plenty of them still complain. Most of us here get our teaching, preparing and marking done within the 5 hours per day we are expected to be at school, and then go home with nothing else to do...not even the washing up which has been done by the maid! But wherever you go, some people will still complain. Don't see the point myself, life is too short!
B

[Isisgato]

Well, Bobbysue, your 'Pollyanna-ish' view is very positive, I'm sure, and must be a great attribute, but to be honest, I think you should open your eyes and look at facts. I never once 'went off on one' or for that matter, 'ranted' --- on the contrary, I listened. I found very few 'CfBT- ers content with either CfBT or Brunei. Many were reconciled to being there because it is a relatively easy life, but it is complete 'lotus-eating' --- one day you WILL wake up and see it for what it is. CfBT is essentially a supply agency there to make a bit of money and they do that by creaming off the difference between what the Brunei Government pays them, and what they finally pay the teacher. O.K. --- that's universal these days --- middlemen rule. I also found very few CfBT-ers indeed with a good word to say about Brunei --- it's dull, parochial, bigoted, backward, blinkered........and by the way, I wasn't promoting Thailand over Brunei. I've never been to Thailand, but only quoted its slogan which it used to use, or maybe still uses, to attract tourists. And I can't agree with you either when you say principals and other teachers esteem us; my opinion was that we 'orang putih' were regarded as at best a necessary evil, and at worst, as an unnecessary evil in their midst. Maybe you've had a more positive experience than I had, or are trying to put a good light on it, but I'm of the......... let's say more cynical opinion that you're only fooling yourself, or at any rate trying to convince yourself that you did right in going there .........reeeeeeeeely, and are making the best of a bad job. "Oh, jolly hockey sticks, isn't it all such fun ???!!!???" isn't really a wise way to live your life.