Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

Hansen

[Hansen]

Arioch, If you consider the remark which you chose to contradict in its context, including the previous post or posts, I was referring to the importance of Oral English with regard to academic advancement.

For instance, those wishing to pursue master's level education must pass an exam. Exam candidates with whom I have talked have never indicated that oral English skill is examined.

The same is true for the university admission exams given to high schol seniors.

Considering the bogus nature of the exams I gave in one of the top three universities in this province, I find it hard to believe that it mattered to these students either. It was reflected in the attitude of a few. They were good at cheating, not listening to English

I am familiar with the English ability of law students because I have attended more than 200 English corners, many of which were conducted on two different university campuses. From time to time, a practicing attorney will stop by to chat. Some law students speak better English than the English majors. I could say the same for some medical students and practicing physicians as well. Some people just pick up language more effectively than others.

If your school makes you feel important, that's fine. If the department in which you teach maintains high standards, that's fine too. Does that mean that oral English is important to the acaemic advancement of Chinese students? It may, or it may simply be a way for the department to shake money out of the students. Obviously, if the school requires them to pass your class to graduate, then their academic advancement is being measured, to some extent, by the classes you teach.

[arioch36]

Hansen,

[vikuk]

[danielb]

[Hansen]

Arioch, I'm puzzled regarding your cattiness. While there will certain be differences among a diverse group of expats trying to cope with a myriad of stresses, I don't get what's ailing you.

My original post was directed to Katja on 010109@0651. You contradicted that post on 010109@ 1348. It's been downhill from there. If you want to discuss an issue, leave the teen age girl style viciousness aside. It contributes nothing to the substance of the discussion and complicates effective communication.

My point was that FTs do not have any real impact on the academic futures of most Chinese students. A subtext to that remark is that the Chinese, due to their general distrust of foreigners, as well as their own academic integrity(?), are unlikely to allow a non professionally trained foreigner to hinder the advance of a promising Chinese student. I offered as proof of my hypotheses the fact that at both university level and below, in government schools, the exams I gave were privately arranged through my department, rather than through the general testing protocols of each school.

I could offer as further proof a conversation I had with an FAO at a high school which admits graduates into top Chinese universities. I was plainly told that the Oral English scores are not factored into the results which determine admission into those universities.

If you have had an experience which is different than that and can offer information that, for instance, demonstrates that the classes you teach do have an impact on the future of a law student with regard to his success as a lawyer in China, please offer it.

To suggest that students who must retest in your class for a fee of 360RMB are experiencing any thing more than a shakedown is unconvincing. Unless you are a professionally trained teacher who has been thoroughly vetted by the administration at your school, it would be irresponsible of your department to allow you to negatively impact the advancement of what are some of China's brightest students. Normally, one can not be a law major without being an excellent student.

Now it is certainly possible that you have attained this position in your school. If so, it is still a mistake to argue that lessons from an exception are generally applicable.

I taught computer science students at the university level. Do you think that the administration is going to allow me to impede the future of tomorrow's hackers or developers of military applications that could assist China in a covert first strike against Western nations?

Get real!

[Lhenderson]

Yeah, right.

My latest jobs pays me a super salary (on local terms.)

Which got me a gal.

And an apartment (which the gal stays in.)

And Is gotz student appraisals.

And yous all expects me to fail anyone.


LOL!!!!!!

[mondrian]

[Katja84]

[Hansen]

Katja, After reading your post, I recalled that the students at the university were concerned about passing; however, that concern manifested itself in cheating scams, whining, snivelling, rather than diligence in study.

I actually gave the students a transcript of the listening part of an exam prior to the test to preview in class. That was a mistake. At that time, I thought that students could be trusted. Once thay had it in their hands, some actually ran out the back door with it, rather than return it as I requested.

In retrospect, the department heads insisting that grades be cooked does indicate that "failing is bad." But the idea that "failing is bad" is not related to actual student performance. It's like *beep* houses that have a sign up in each room forbidding whoring. It's just a doff of the cap to an abstract concept which has no practical manifestation evinced by students working harder. They've already given up on Oral English, perhaps with good reason