Job Discussion Forums

[DIPTESOL]

I'd like to start up a discussion about observations and feedback due to my recent experiences. I am Diploma qualified and have worked as a DOS before where it was my responsibility to observe 7 teachers, give feedback and training. Due to the company not being to my requirements I left and took a high school teaching job. Going from management back to teaching sure is tough especially when dealing with incompetency.

The first observation I had, the manager just waltzed into my classroom without any prior notice. At the end of the class he just said not to do spelling tests because the kids don't like it. I didn't say anything but was annoyed because their teacher had asked me to do it and spelling tests are sometimes a good way to settle kids down for 5 minutes. Incidentally the manager said he'd email the feedback! I sent an email to the management telling them that this not the way observations should be done and I told them the standard procedures: pre lesson chat, oservation then post lesson feedback.

I have just had another observation, this time I was notified on the day. Again the same thing happened, at the end he said a few comments and then sent the feedback via email. I replied saying I don't think that feedback via email is very productive and that observations should be used as a tool for the teacher to reflect and justify things that they did in the lesson. That is why face to face feedback seems to be the best method, rather than just giving the teacher a bit of writing about what needs improving and not one bit of positive feedback.

Any comments and views would be much appreciated.

[naturegirl321]

Your manager simply might resent you becuase you had a management position before. He might be scared to face you. Try talking to him, if that doesn-t work, just chalk him up as a pain.

[denise]

Your manager seems not to have had any training at all in classroom observations. I'd be pretty annoyed in your position, too. Those observations sound like they're completely worthless.

d

[Elkythedogsperson]

Unfortunately, while we can (generally) choose our employees, we can't always choose our bosses. You manager may just not be a "confrontational" face-to-face type and feels uncomfortable alone in one-on-one situations. Or, if you're in part of a chain, he is required to submit feed back electronically for some kind of record and he eants to kill two birds with one stone. If you feel the need to explain why you did something a certain way, then I'd request some time and see if you can force the face-to-face.

I've been lucky in that my feedback sessions have been pre-announced and face to face.

I agree with you about spelling quizzes though. Can be a good warmer and way to get students focused.

[basiltherat]

Hi
I just love the way some of these 'observers' (or lets call them, 'people who need to get a real job') say things like:

"So, why didn't you do it (this) way ? or "You could have elicited (such n such) like this."

"My answer:

"Because I chose to do it (that) way !"

If there is more than one way to way to skin a cat, there must be hundreds of ways to elicit / teach / practice / reinforce a particular aspect of English.

Frankly, I couldn't give a r@ts @rse about how some young upstart 'observer' thinks I performed in the classroom.
He can watch and observe as much as he / she wants but I'm not gonna have time to sit down with him and listen to a detailed analysis/critique of my lesson when I could be doing something more constructive.

If anyone wants to take away some ideas from my lessons by observing, that's cool by me and I think its a great idea (I do sometimes look in on other teachers' lessons here to 'steal' some ideas and they do likewise)

I've been doing this nonsense too long to spend an hour with some m0ronic individual labelling himself a 'teacher observer'.

Otherwise ...... fire me !

best
Basil

[MO39]

I haven't taught in a classroom for awhile, but, when I did, I never looked forward to being observed. However, the times I recall it happening (in the US and Mexico), the observer was either a fellow teacher who had taken on the responsibility of observing new hires or was my immediate boss, who was also a teacher. Almost always the post-observation chats turned out to be friendly, collegial, and sometimes useful!

[DIPTESOL]

Funnily enough, a week later and I've just been sacked!
Feel like a contestant on the Weakest Link! tactical voting in play from the weaker party I think!

[naturegirl321]

You-re kidding! But, hey I know how you feel, I figured that it wasn-t worth the stress of working in a bad environment.

[roywebcafe]

I was observed to death on my PGCE by someoen who could find fault with anything and everything. I passed all my academic assignments and didn't pass enough observations to get my pgce even though i went after the academic year ended to re-continue in the new academic year. Still failed - No funding, commuting long distances and early morning starts didn't help. I lost my intial placement due to other non-teaching matters and i restarted in the next academic year with another placement. Left it too late to get compensation for unfair loss of first placement.

There was a lot of bullshit. Had to teach for three hours so college could justify their funding!! And students were allowed by management to arrive at any time cos they were asylum seekers and refugees with external problems!

When i add all the time inbetween start-end-holidays and then the re-start i wasted 17 months on that PGCE! - It was only supposed to be 9!! What hurts as well is that a friend gave me information about an internship program in China after failing the first academic year which i could have done and passed and then emailed the college saying *beep* your PGCE. It was with Language Link who seemed to have moved their internship program to Russia? Anyone heard this BTW?

Always someone worse off. i never got paid for any of the teaching as it was teacher training but on my second placement Nov to March. No supervision was given and it really was unpaid teaching. But did it to get my PGCE. And i am supposed to feel grateful!

[Justin Trullinger]

Wow- most of you guys sound like you'd be no fun to observe at all.

I'm one of the guys who does observations, both as a supervisor ("boss," if you will) and as a teacher trainer. A couple of thoughts:

[basiltherat]

[Sashadroogie]

My sympathies to DIPTESOL. Sounds like you had a rough time, though you are probably better off out of there. I agree with you that it is hard going from a more senior position to a purely teaching one, but I think I was luckier than most. (Usually, my observer would tell me that the observation had to be done as a matter of form, and we'd just get on with it. Still, nice for my previous experience to be acknowledged.)

Justin Trullinger's post was full of many excellent points too. Emailing other parties may not have been the right move. Nevertheless, while observees and teachers can and will make slip-ups, and can only be expected to do, observers and academic management cannot afford to be anything less than beyond reproach. No prior notice, no real feedback are cardinal sins in the world of developmental observations. (It was for teacher-development, wasn't it?) There really isn't any excuse for it - certainly not time constraints.

I think that the key lies in face-to-face communication, as mentioned earlier too. I don't just mean in dealing with management or problems, but also for observations. Observations like it or not, are the bedrock of professional development. Both the extra lesson-planning and the execution of the lesson in the classroom are great opportunities to grow as a teacher, but there is nothing like personal reflection afterwards followed by insightful feedback at a later time to really raise your game. Written notes are a must, but many more issues will be covered during oral feedback, and sometimes much more productively if both parties can express their points of view freely.

Much of the success of observations lies in the attitude of both sides. If a teacher has no respect for the DoS or the Dos doesn't follow standard procedures, then there is little room for development

[fluffyhamster]

I'd hardly call observation the bedrock of professional development, Sashadroogie. It is basically an opportunity for those who've ceased to create and develop as much themselves to indulge their critical tendencies, which unfortunately often seem or tend to gravitate towards the nitpicking and destructive rather than fully constructive (perhaps those who think they can do better and always know best really should get out of their armchair and back into teaching - ah, but that would be too much hard work again, wouldn't it! Another nice cuppa back in the warmth and safety of the office is much more appealing).

Actually, I don't quite know why I am responding here, because I haven't ever been observed much, and certainly not recently, but then, perhaps I like some others (ostensibly experienced and professional teachers) take offence at the suggestion that we don't ever reflect upon our teaching and make numerous tweaks and improvements, add and build in more options, to our growing and/or evolving stock of activities and lessons, all the while reaqding around and improving our language- and applied linguistic-awareness.

Observation should only be for relative newbies or total "method" schools, and even then, be seen for what it is - a means to ensure compliance to behavioural "norms" that will supposedly prevent one from being completely incompetent and ensure successful learning and cheers all round, rather than a more assured and imaginative, and less lazy means to professional development. Which is of course quite a different thing (as Basil has said) to ourselves observing ("observing"? Nabbing notes from? etc) other chalkface teachers and by conscious personal choice (rather than imposed fiat) appropriating only what we perceive to be their truly successful ideas (rather than theories), that they not incidentally have actually had to care about, sweat over and truly work to successfully implement (then, there will be instances of stuff that didn't work, or wouldn't for us at least, that can be equally instructive (because in our minds eye we endeavour to do the opposite), but how often would any genuinely noble failures be part of ongoing teacher training? All trainers and observers deal in are "bad method, no-no" charicatures that the wiser trainees-now-observees will have wised up to avoiding, even if they personally sometimes unobserved use the more realistic aspects of certain methods themselves). But good luck everyone in finding an employer who leaves you with gaps in your schedule, and colleagues who are open to you sitting in or collaborating or whatever!

[johnslat]

And then, there's the "observer effect," often conflated with Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which certainly applies here:

In experimental research, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observing will make on the phenomenon being observed. It has application in many fields of scientific inquiry, and may refer specifically to:

Observer effect (information technology), the impact of observing a process while it is running
Observer effect (physics), the impact of observing a physical system
Observer effect (psychology), how people change their behavior when aware of being watched

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect

Regards,
John

[Justin Trullinger]

Sometimes called the Shrodinger principle, though that's probably spelled wrong. It's been a while since I did much reading about physics.

Anywho...