Job Discussion Forums

[tjhoult]

We, a couple, are moving to Moscow in 2 weeks. How do we find an apartment?

We know expat.ru, but there are hardly any adverts, and very, very few on the cheaper scale. We've posted ads, and had little response.

When we've moved to asian cities, we found it easier to use local web pages and take an interpreter. Is that an option in Moscow? How did anyone find their accommodation?

Thanks a lot for the help.

[maruss]

I would really recommend you first read the postings under another thread by myself and others in response to a Russian ladys request about coming back to Russia at the moment.Especially in recent years,rents have risen to risen to incredible levels in Moscow,even for Russians,although the financial crisis which is now beginning to hit hard might well finally change this crazy situation.I can tell you from personal experience when I was last there in early 2006 that is is very difficult to find an appartment unless you pay handsomely,particularly if you are a foreigner!Agencies want 2 months rent up front,one as a deposit,plus their commission(yes,the tenants pay in Russia as well as the owner!) and if you are not local the price will usually be much higher anyway.....Even with close Russian friends,they could not find me one for the second part of my stay at an affordable price and this is one of the reasons why I left earlier than I had originally planned.Other problems are that landlords often refuse to register you at their addresss because they are afraid of problems with the tax authorities and you need this for your visa, unless your firm will take care of it.Also beware because landlords can ask you to leave anytime they feel like it,especially if they find other tenants who will pay more(although not so likely under present conditions!)although if you rent with an agency that deals with foreigners and can afford their prices, this is less likely.I don't know how much you are prepared to pay and what standard you expect but even a 1-room Soviet style place away from the centre and not in a nice area will not be under $1000 per month,and that's at Russian prices.Sorry to sound so gloomy,but that's how it is in Russia-complicated,expensive and you are likely to get ripped-off unless you have Russian friends.Let me know if you need any more advice.

[tjhoult]

Thanks very much for the email.

We've been planning our Russia trip for a while, and know it's going to be expensive, and unfortunately, we don't have any Russian friends (although we do have a contact or two there). It doesn't look like a price drop is going to take effect quick enough for us, which is a shame also.

If anyone knows of any Russian websites where we might be able to find apartments listed, that would help immensely, as of course, the Enlgish langauge ones generally have the prices inflated.

Thanks again.

[maruss]

For example,if you go to a site like realty.ru and then to appartments to rent(presuming you can read Russian) and enter a price of say $1000 per month,you will see a whole list of appartments in various suburbs of Moscow,describing their distance from the nearest metro station,either walking or by transport and usually what furniture etc. is included,number of rooms etc with rental terms and a contact number....so far so good you might think, but the trouble is that nearly all these numbers are not of the landlords but of commission agents who work either privately or for a company and who maybe do not even have the appartment listed available at all!Try calling them(get some Russian to!) and I bet they will ask you to meet them,promise to help you find another appartment because the one you saw advertised has 'just been rented etc' and of course ask for a fee up-front of at least $40-50 (or maybe much more if they think you will pay them!!)to cover their 'services' etc.You may be lucky and they will actually find you something afterwards but when??Imagine if you collect fees from a few people daily this way,you can make quite a nice little income and many,many Russians do it!If you are a foreigner and cannot speak fluent Russian and have no ,locals to help you,you will end up using one of the bigger agencies such as those who advertise in Moscow Times etc. but they normally only deal with more up-market accom. and prices are very high.I don't know how long you are planning to stay there for but if its less than several months you will have to get a short-let and these are obviously much dearer than those on a 6 month or yearly basis,just like in many other places.That's about how it works in a nutshellTry getting someobody you know and trust who is Russian to help you with finding accom,even if you need to pay them something is my best advice!
Cheers for now,
M.

[maruss]

For example,if you go to a site like realty.ru and then to appartments to rent(presuming you can read Russian) and enter a price of say $1000 per month,you will see a whole list of appartments in various suburbs of Moscow,describing their distance from the nearest metro station,either walking or by transport and usually what furniture etc. is included,number of rooms etc with rental terms and a contact number....so far so good you might think, but the trouble is that nearly all these numbers are not of the landlords but of commission agents who work either privately or for a company and who maybe do not even have the appartment listed available at all!Try calling them(get some Russian to!) and I bet they will ask you to meet them,promise to help you find another appartment because the one you saw advertised has 'just been rented etc' and of course ask for a fee up-front of at least $40-50 (or maybe much more if they think you will pay them!!)to cover their 'services' etc.You may be lucky and they will actually find you something afterwards but when??Imagine if you collect fees from a few people daily this way,you can make quite a nice little income and many,many Russians do it!If you are a foreigner and cannot speak fluent Russian and have no ,locals to help you,you will end up using one of the bigger agencies such as those who advertise in Moscow Times etc. but they normally only deal with more up-market accom. and prices are very high.I don't know how long you are planning to stay there for but if its less than several months you will have to get a short-let and these are obviously much dearer than those on a 6 month or yearly basis,just like in many other places.That's about how it works in a nutshellTry getting someobody you know and trust who is Russian to help you with finding accom,even if you need to pay them something is my best advice!
Cheers for now,
M.

[maruss]

For example,if you go to a site like realty.ru and then to appartments to rent(presuming you can read Russian) and enter a price of say $1000 per month,you will see a whole list of appartments in various suburbs of Moscow,describing their distance from the nearest metro station,either walking or by transport and usually what furniture etc. is included,number of rooms etc with rental terms and a contact number....so far so good you might think, but the trouble is that nearly all these numbers are not of the landlords but of commission agents who work either privately or for a company and who maybe do not even have the appartment listed available at all!Try calling them(get some Russian to!) and I bet they will ask you to meet them,promise to help you find another appartment because the one you saw advertised has 'just been rented etc' and of course ask for a fee up-front of at least $40-50 (or maybe much more if they think you will pay them!!)to cover their 'services' etc.You may be lucky and they will actually find you something afterwards but when??Imagine if you collect fees from a few people daily this way,you can make quite a nice little income and many,many Russians do it!If you are a foreigner and cannot speak fluent Russian and have no ,locals to help you,you will end up using one of the bigger agencies such as those who advertise in Moscow Times etc. but they normally only deal with more up-market accom. and prices are very high.I don't know how long you are planning to stay there for but if its less than several months you will have to get a short-let and these are obviously much dearer than those on a 6 month or yearly basis,just like in many other places.That's about how it works in a nutshellTry getting someobody you know and trust who is Russian to help you with finding accom,even if you need to pay them something is my best advice!
Cheers for now,
M.

[mdk]

I suggest that you stay at one of the AYH youth hostels in Moscow.
-at least while you are looking.
You can find out about AYH at www.hiusa.org and then link over to the worldwide site to see what's around Moscow.

I just took a quick look. At the USADBA hostel near the old
mikchaelovsky estate you can bunk for $24 and get a 2 bed room for $90.

I don't think you can do better than that in Moscow.

Bring lot's of ready cash. If you don't have money you won''t like Moscow - and Moscow won't like you.

[maruss]

Especially if you need to economise and I also agree that cash is king in Moscow.If you don't know anyone who can put you up for the first week or so for an agreed price while you look for something else the other option is to stay in a modest hotel such as Ismailova,but even that will be much more than the hostel. Finding affordable accomodation in Moscow seems to have been a problem since Soviet times,ostensibly because there is a constant demand for it from people from all over Russia as well as from abroad.

[Zelo]

Your initial post indicates that you are not ready to go to Moscow. Within the city it is impossible to find anything that you can afford, and if you do I promise you that you will regret it. There are no laws here for housing (the landlord is king) and you can not only lose your money, but you can be find yourself hijacked financially within a few months.

Here is my advice: the only way that you will be able to make it in Moscow is provided housing. If anyone tries to advise you differently they are lying. It is that black and white in Moscow, do not be fooled!

[Sashadroogie]

Getting an accommodation package deal with the Big Schools is the tried and trusted way for most people to start up in Moscow. Naturally this comes with a downside too, as noted extensively on this forum. However, nothing is ever black and white in this city...

[maruss]

Both Zelo and Sashadroogie are right!It is probably easier to find work than finding an appartment in Moscow and the 'Mac' firms which provide accom. know this only too well and exploit it to the maximum!Unless you have at least a couple of thousand $ to spare up-front or are lucky enough to have a place you know and can afford ready on arrival,you will be financially screwed,believe you me!In my case,my best Russian friends father-in-law who already knew me and had agreed to rent me his decrepid place down in Profsoyuznaya cheaply for myself quarelled with his wife where he was living the night before I was due to arrive,and had to move back there himself.Luckily for me,my friends boss has one of his nice evroremonts empty after a foreign tenant suddenly left and agreed to let me have it temporarily at a third of the market rent for about 6 weeks as a very big favour,so I was very lucky indeed till I went on leave!But when I came back,I ended up being forced to rent a room in the appartment of some other friends or I would have been on the street, as nobody could find me an affordable appartment......That was three years ago and I understand things are now far worse in Moscow, so be warned!!
On principle,I do not like sharing accomodation,especially with people I don't know and this is why I have always objected to the way the 'Mac' firms expect teachers to do this.In my case,I knew the woman(a widow from Ukraine) who rented me the room very well and in fact had already struck-up a relationship with her which nearly got spoiled because her teeenage son,who was constantly at home and very attached to her ensured we consequently we had no privacy!Far worse situations can result,plus the fact that most schools provide grotty appartments in often run-down suburbs!

[kazachka]

Prices are coming down a bit due to the crisis but still not dirt cheap. My advice is simple- If you can afford it, get your own place. I personally could never do the roomie thing, but that's just me. Well living with sig. other does not count as a roomie. Roomie to me means living with a stranger or someone you may not know very well (as would be the case in Mc School housing).I've been on my own far too long and I'm sure one of us would end up dead I don't want to be forced to accomodate someone and I don't expect anyone else to have to put up with me either Peace, quiet, and privacy are king. Life is too short for unnecessary aggravation.If I want to go out, I do, but if I need to get to bed on a Friday night because I have to catch an early elektrichka to a race where I can win MONEY, I don't want the aggravation of some clown in my flat keeping me up half the night. So, if you can afford mid 20,000rub a month, you should be able to get smthg although it may not be in the center. Things start in the low 20s in my neck of the woods.

[maruss]

Kazachkas advice on Moscow life is solid and up-to-date,as well as good for you mental and physical well-being!The last place to get reliable advice is from the Mac school which you might be contemplating working for......

[mdk]

Still there are two sides to every issue.

Last month I got an email from a former teacher guy saying how hard life was because the crazy party he had thrown in his place, and punching out his roomie had lost him his flat and job at the MsSchool.

Beware if you share a place. Not every ex-pat makes a good roomie.

[maruss]

The kind of ex-pats who go to Russia tend to be:A) those on short contracts with with foreign firms in specialised jobs that carry very high wages and excellent benefits such as luxury accomodation etc(not ESL teachers!)B)New graduates who are looking for a short-term work experience and may have studied Russian language and history etc-this includes many esl teachers who take jobs with 'Mac' schoolsC)Men or women perhaps hoping to find a Russian partner and then either leave with them or in a few cases,try to stay in Russia longtermD)Miscellaneous smaller numbers of people who go there for a variety of reasons,including avoiding the law abroad and these include alimony dodgers,adventurers or just plain weirdos!
Bearing all this in mind,agreeing to share accom. with a stranger is definitely'Russian roulette!!'