Job Discussion Forums

[Viktor87]

Hello there,
I'm a newcomer to this forum, but I have browsed it some and already found helpful information regarding this topic- teaching EFL in Syria/Lebanon, that is. I have a general interest in the ME but after reading posts decided that my interests and qualifications direct me towards those two countries. Anyway I still have a few questions, so I'll try to be as specific as I can to avoid annoying people and hopefully get some useful information:

1. I understand that schools in these two countries don't tend to advertise much on the internet, however, these jobs are available. Could someone give me at least a partial list of schools they know of that I might consider contacting? I have found some already and know others from reading this forum (ALC in Damascus for one) but if anyone knows any other smaller institutions I would gladly appreciate it.

2. Any advice regarding my intention to try to get hired remotely (as in, over the internet.) I currently live in the United States and could not possibly travel to either of these places without securing a job first, as I have very little money. My qualifications are unimpressive- BA in East Asian Studies ( not English ; well I'll be honest, I graduate this spring so I technically don't have that yet, but I suppose that's not an issue ), some experience teaching English here in the States but none abroad. No CELTA or anything like it, don't have the time/money for such a course at the moment. But I am not looking for anything special either, basically any teaching job I can sustain myself with in either of these countries, and I have the impression from reading this forum it's not an impossibility.
So anyway, if I'm inquiring without being prompted by an ad, should I do it over email? Over phone? Should I send my resume in the first email or only if they reply? Should I spend more than one email if I don't get a reply right away- is that something they expect? What else about myself- I'm a Russian citizen, but have lived here for 12 years so my English is native level. I speak some Arabic. Are either of these an asset or a detriment to my candidacy?

3. I have been trying to find the Job Information Journal to read the Syria entry described by basiltherat but can't seem to get it to work. It just redirects me to the home page. Is this section of the site down for some reason?

Anyway, I apologize if I am posting a similar thread to what has been posted by some others before. The ME isn't my only place of interest, for that matter, and I plan to be active on this forum in the future; probably asking more stupid questions
Thank you in advance!

[veiledsentiments]

With your almost total lack of both credentials and experience, I doubt that any employer will hire you from overseas. You would have to go there and you need to be able to support yourself for a few months as it can take time before you earn enough to live on. You may have a difficult time getting anything full time.

And be sure to keep your round-trip ticket current so that you can get home if you have to.

To be honest, I think you need to think this idea through. A better idea is to get a job in the US, save some money, get a CELTA, and then look at an idea like this.

VS

[Viktor87]

Well, uhh, I'm not exactly asking to be dissuaded from this idea... I mean, if it doesn't work, then I'll try something else, but no reason to give up without trying, right? Certainly, going over there without a job lined up sounds like a bad plan.
I know for a fact there are many institutions in East Asia that do hire people overseas with only a BA and native-level English- I've looked around, as I've mentioned. What I was asking, I guess, is if there are any in the Lebanon/Syria area, as this is the place I'm more interested in at the moment. Even if it seems unlikely that they will hire me, I would like to try to apply, and to that end it would be nice to have a few tips.
I hope this won't get ignored, as I would to get some more advice.

[mattjd43]

Viktor,

Your situation sounds EXACTLY like mine. I have come to the conclusion that most organizations, with the exception of a few like AMIDEAST, only hire locally in-country. There is no way in heck I can afford to risk moving overseas and then securing employment. Unfortunately, the market appears to be far more competitive in the ME than in Asia.

I've tried to find Basiltherat's journal too but had the same problem you did. I sent him a PM to see if he had a copy he could post or send, but he has yet to reply. Not sure if he is still active on the forums. Basil...you out there?

Let's hope that we start having better luck.

[adorabilly]

Hi Viktor and Matt.

With those credentials (or lack of), no celta/delta, and limited teaching experience your choices will be EXTREMELY limited anywhere in the gulf.

If you were living in either of those countries, you could use word of mouth to find work, and you could pound the pavement until you could find work.

The problem (as has been stated) is that very few companies will hire you with those credentials.

A suggestion would be to head to china, indonesia, thailand, parts of japan, and korea first. With a college degree, native english speaking level and some teaching experience you can EASILY get a job that will pay for you to travel there and it will include housing. While not the best paying jobs, they are still jobs that will pay for you to get some experience.

do those for a few years, get a Celta (or even an MA online) and then apply again to the ME.

[mattjd43]

The answers posted on this thread correlate with what everyone else has told me; get a CELTA, MA, or TESOL then get a few years experience teaching stateside or in Asia before looking to the Mid East.

But I have to come clean. While I believe that teaching would be an incredible experience, my motives are selfish. I want to learn Arabic in an immersion setting and experience the culture. I am by no means wealthy -- quite the opposite actually -- and need an avenue to finance my venture. My educational and professional backgrounds are in writing and editing, so TEFL appears to be my most viable option.

I don't want to spend a couple years pursuing a second degree for a short-term project. At this point, I have no desire to make teaching a lifelong career.

A lot of people on these forums would pan and scold me for such an altruistic attitude, but it is what it is. I don't want to get rich off the experience. I'm looking to find a job that provides a means to the ends. Not that I wouldn't make a good teacher. I would, and I would work hard at it and make sure that my students are getting the best experience they can. I want to make it a win-win situation for everyone involved.

[15yearsinQ8]

my god.
what the last poster and the initial poster have to realize is that teaching is a profession - not a way to get some money while you learn arabic.

take a look their our eyes (the senior teachers on this thread - certified, credentialed, experienced, degreed [in a major called Education]). you are insulting the profession by thinking you can waltz in here and claim to be a 'good teacher' without training, without committment to a profession (ok it won't be your career but frankly, you don't know S%$* and god help your students who pay hard earned money for your services

have i vented enough here????
please, stay home until you're trained

[mattjd43]

^^^Validated my last paragraph.

All I ask is, who insults the profession more: He who wants to teach as a way to further his own knowledge, or he who tramples his own profession's teachings with such horrible writing? Shouldn't a teacher lead by example?

There are highly educated, highly experienced teachers out there who are terrible at their jobs, whether it's because of poor aptitude or lack of passion. I'm guessing the above poster falls into the former of the two categories.

That's all I'm going to say. I've stated my position. Fire away if you like, but the subject is closed on my end.

[15yearsinQ8]

Don't give me the ' but I'm or I'd be better than some teachers you know' excuse
other branches are clogged with backpackers looking for jobs
and frankly we're sick of it
i'm not unsympathetic to wanting some pocket money while travelling but realize that you're frankly not in the professional league here

i'm not unsympathetic, just a little elitist (ie professional)

[adorabilly]

Hey Matt.

you asked, and you got several answers.

If you are in country you might be able to find work. But you most likely won't find anyone willing to pay flight, housing, visa with your experience.

And you need to understand, that to a lot of the long timers who have put in the work, the hours, the time working in sh|tholes that your cavailer attitude is insulting.

I appreciate your honesty, but you should realize that not a month goes by without some silly uninformed (not saying you) person who comes on and says "I want one of those 60K a year jobs that require no training or experience in Saudi/ the ME" and then think that it is such an easy job a trained monkey could do it.

If you are after arabic look for positions in parts of indonesia, or brunei (spelling error). Some of those positions will take your education and experience levels.

but understand that arabic (like all languages) is vastly different from one country to another.

[Viktor87]

Well I'm surprised by the sudden number of replies...

Matt, I'm glad to hear I'm not completely crazy and there are others like me. It's true, my motivations are fairly similar to yours, though I did not say so explicitly at first and am surprised you picked that up. You said your situation is similar to mine... are you also a foreigner by chance ? Too bad the only real advice I get is from someone who is in my boat. And you are probably right about what you said, I'm sure my chances are better in Asia...

In response to some other people, I'm surprised by the negativity. I think it's perfectly legitamate to travel to other countries for whatever reason and teach English simply as a means of financial support rather than making it a lifetime profession. If you feel threatened by that, it probably says more about your qualifications than about mine. Furthermore, I think really the best way to improve in teaching is from teaching, not from learning how to teach. I have enough friends in the profession to know this to be true.

Anyway, gl matt

[Viktor87]

To adorabilly-
I don't think either matt or myself are interested in the 60k job you are talking about, or in Saudi Arabia either. I think you did not read either of our posts very carefully.
If you feel insulted, you are ridiculous. I think an attitude of wanting to go to a country to experience it, live in it, and understand it, is a much more respectful approach than wanting to go there to earn some money.

Honestly, I can't believe people are reacting like this. I can't find anything I or matt wrote that could set people off. Some of you "long-timers" need to chill out.

[veiledsentiments]

Ah... the arrogance of youth... If you come to a board of professional teachers, who have paid their educational dues, and spent years working in the profession, I would say that you better read your posts and think about what you are saying. We have no necessity to "chill" but I can see that you two may need to "get real."

...and what kind of example are you presenting? To me it may show some curiosity, but it shows equal amounts of laziness and ignorance - and complete disrespect for any of the good teachers that you may have had over the last years..

Do you really think some educational institution is going to fly you in to teach for them? Would you want to work for a place that was clueless enough to hire some kid with no training or experience to teach for them? Common sense would say not to touch them with a barge pole as they very likely intend to abuse you and will certainly be abusing their own students by charging them big money and giving them a kid who merely speaks the language. Anyone who thinks that knowing a language makes them a teacher is at best a fool.

Go to Asia or South America... those are the places that will offer a passing inexperienced backpacker a teaching job for a minimal pay... and they get what they pay for...

But... as I said... make sure that you have enough money before you get there to get back home... and to eat...

VS

[basiltherat]

matt

pm'ed you

best
basil

[Viktor87]

"Do you really think some educational institution is going to fly you in to teach for them? Would you want to work for a place that was clueless enough to hire some kid with no training or experience to teach for them? Common sense would say not to touch them with a barge pole as they very likely intend to abuse you and will certainly be abusing their own students by charging them big money and giving them a kid who merely speaks the language. Anyone who thinks that knowing a language makes them a teacher is at best a fool."

Ok. That kind of makes sense. But my understanding is that's exactly what people do. You say yourself in the next sentence-"Go to Asia or South America". Wouldn't the above hold in those situations as well? Or does it only apply to schools in the ME?

I never claimed to be a good teacher, but yes, people do teach on the basis of just knowing the language. I've done it, my friends have done it, I'm sure you know many people who have as well. Why are you trying to tell me otherwise?

I really feel like I'm missing something here. I asked some questions about a widely practiced topic and most of what I get is dismissal and criticism. Is it that you simply would like to keep "backpackers", as you put it, out of the Middle East, for whatever principled or selfish reasons you might have, despite the reality of their existence elsewhere and probably in the region as well? In that case an honest "I don't want to help you" would have been fine, but why justify your reaction by accusing me of ignorance, arrogance, and worse?

Anyway, if the whole point of this thread has been to discourage me from seeking advice on this forum, you might well have succeeded. Kind of ridiculous considering I only joined it a few days ago. I mean if you feel like you gain something from it that's fine. It certainly won't stop me from exploring my options elsewhere.

Lastly- basiltherat, I would greatly appreciate it if you might also tell me your opinion- i see you private messaged matt- as you have mentioned to have extensive experience in Syria. If there is a reason why you'd rather not, I won't take offense, but I'd at least like to know.