Job Discussion Forums

[Marcoregano]

[dreadnought v.2]

[Cohen]

[Justin Trullinger]

This is turning into a really interesting thread. My thoughts on PPP, or PPU, as it's sometimes called, or ECRIF, which is a another representation of similar, though more flexible and better developed....


...would take a lot more time and space than I'll be spending on here today.

About observations, though-

Thanks to the thoughtful answers to my question about why we don't just skip it.

I'd add a few more, though-

I have a responsibility to know that the classes in our institution are meeting our standards. There are a lot of ways to go about this, but observation is one, and it's one that counts. Other ways I could check?

Teachers often ask for it. A number of jobseekers have asked about this- if they feel they benefit from it, why not?

It keeps me knowledgeable about teachers, and therefore able to look for the best T-S matches. (How do I know if a new applicant will fit the dynamic in your class if I don't actually know what your class looks like?

Best,
Justin

[fluffyhamster]

Nice post too, Cohen! I wasn't aware of the exact terms being used nowadays, but it comes as no great surprise that the "new" terms beg similar questions to the old.

A keyword for me is authentic. If more time were spent making every word coming from especially the teacher's mouth more authentic (and that doesn't necessarily have to mean more complex and difficult), more genuine, then students might actually develop to the point where they could handle the language spontaneously and without the "need" for the endless nannying if not babying that the worst teachers and their handlers seem wont to continue to inflict and exercise.

[dreadnought v.2]

[fluffyhamster]

Nobody is saying that piecemeal phrases don't serve a function or have a role to play, but if that were all that students were after, they'd surely have simply bought a phrase book than enrol in expensive language classes.

[Marcoregano]

[Sashadroogie]

Who would have thought this topic would have yielded so much!

Actually, I am a little saddened that so many posters have had such bad experience with observations and feedback. For me, I have never had a problem with them in theory or practice, but maybe that's just my good fortune. In fact I have found, in total opposition to others writing here, the best schools I worked for always had a regular system of observations, teacher-training workshops, seminars etc. It was the schools that didn't do any of this that tended to be the cowboy outfits.

At the risk of repetition, I would not agree that obs are flawed because they are not the real thing. But enough said about that already.

However, a more interesting question was raised about the 'monitoring' purpose of observations. This is no secret at all. Of course they are sometimes used as a form of appraisal, especially for new teachers on a trial period, or on a training course. While most other professions do not have this particular method of appraisal, they certainly do have some. I know of no profession where management does not �check-up� on staff performance. In teaching, there are not too many other alternatives to observations. Student feedback is essential too, but not reliable on its own, anymore than observations are. In my own management experience, I often witnessed successful 'personality' teachers who got consistently positive feedback when teaching short summer courses, but then suffered from negative feedback from students in longer term classes who were not satisfied with mere entertainment and wanted something concrete from their class. Conflicting feedback - which does a school believe? How else is it possible to find out what reasons may account for this disparity? Incidentally, I found that when having to deal with complaints from students, the first thing most teachers usually say in their defence is, 'That's not true. You have no right to say/believe that because you weren't there!' Can't seem to win. I�m a spy if I observe: I�m uninformed if I don�t.

Ultimately, I guess this issue raises larger questions about working for schools. Most schools/companies retain the right to observe lessons for a variety of reasons, in the same way that they determine which course book should be followed, the length of the course or even which method should be practiced, e.g. Berlitz and others of that ilk. They are not likely to abandon this. If one finds it difficult to 'toe the line', then probably this is not the right school to be in. Perhaps no school is and freelancing is the best option. Also, most schools do not see a class as 'your' group, with special privileges attached, and so do not see observing a class as meddling in teacher affairs. I personally do not see the groups I teach this way either. There are larger contractual obligations on the students� and school's part at play than just my rights as a teacher.

Whatever about anything else, I certainly agree that this has been one of the most interesting discussions I have read or contributed to in a long while.

[basiltherat]

[Marcoregano]

[Cohen]

What about every single lesson being observed, and by parents (at least potentially)? I have just read an article about some kindergartens and primary schools in Canada and the US that have installed CCTV in each and every classroom and, in addition to that, parents of students can log on with a password they are given by the school administration and can view their offspring in the lesson in real time via the Internet.

Imagine that!

[Kootvela]

[iain]

The recent poll on the British Council Teaching English website ended up with 47% of teachers showing approval of lesson observation. Judging by the attached comments, the majority of these teachers are non-native English speakers. Maybe they take less for granted (about themselves)?

[Sashadroogie]

Dear Marcoregano

Ok, I�m repeating myself a touch. Yes, I think everybody would accept that the act of observing a lesson does indeed change a class to some degree, for the reasons you listed. But it is that this somehow intrinsically undermines or discredits the validity of all observations that I refute. Properly handled, observation does not change the lesson to a significant degree at all, in my opinion. To believe so would be similar to believing that a doctor�s physical examining of a patient would also be fatally compromised by the stress the patient may be feeling by being in the doctor�s office, and so the doctor is not seeing the patient or his symptoms as they really are. Indeed, it is like thinking that the doctor could not rely on the accuracy of his temperature readings because the act of inserting a cold thermometer into the patient�s mouth actually lowered his body temperature infinitesimally. I believe most of us would still accept the overall validity of the doctor�s findings. Similarly, I do not hold that a lesson observer cannot draw anything of much value from the observation because the lesson is not a real one � however we may choose to define a �real� lesson.

Point taken about Hong Kong and other methods of development. However, please correct me if I am wrong here, but from the little I know about the place, it seems to draw experienced and well-trained teachers who do not need so much support or observation in the first place. But other places where I have worked, for example, in Moscow, the opposite is true. Most non-Russian EFL teachers in language schools here are very new and they need as much help as they can get. Good schools will observe regularly � they need to.

Yes, it is a big, bad world out there in EFL. I am not na�ve. I have no reason to doubt other posters' experiences. I have been lucky I avoided this type of hardship in my early career, but 12 odd years later, I doubt I�ll ever suffer it in the future. I have moved on, lucky me. From the other side, though, I have ample experience of nasty stuff from a few of the observees I have, erm, encountered. One or two �novelist� types refused in no uncertain terms to listen to anything about the teaching of grammar, as they had superior knowledge to all others. Apparently, one of them really thought that his reading aloud page after page from his latest opus would help the learners (elementaries) appreciate the finer points of English. The suggestion that the observed bored, blank faces said otherwise was not something he would brook. Then there was the radio journalist who conducted every lesson at a high speed gallop, often answering his own questions before the students could comprehend them. Any feedback suggestion that speed of delivery was an issue was forcefully countered with the withering accusation that I didn�t understand the perils of �dead air�. A local non-native English teacher argued at every possible point that no feedback from me could be valuable as I didn�t know the local culture, the students or even the local language, and that I should really ask her for expert help. (In point of fact, I have observed Modern Language classes quite effectively, though I speak not a word of Arabic or German.) At the same time, and rather comically, I was also accused of being a charlatan by one untrained teacher who tried to refuse to have any observations as I was not a native speaker. (I am - just not the same nationality as her. Not that this should really matter.) Thankfully, though, this list is not so long, but the nastiness factor was quite high.

Maybe the CCTV thing is not a bad idea? Spare poor little me having to suffer�