Job Discussion Forums

[Capergirl]

OK, so I'm about to start my conversation class and I notice that no one has sat beside me (around an oval boardroom table). There is an empty chair to my right and an empty chair to my left. I ask my students, "Why isn't anyone sitting on either side of me?" The lone female student pipes up, "We learn in culture sensitivity class that Nort' Americans don't like anybody too close to them. So we give you space." The other students nod their heads in agreement. Interesting. They are afraid that I will be offended by their proximity, which I wouldn't be...but that's not what they were told. I almost felt like scrapping the night's topic altogether and doing a little class on cultural stereotypes.

[Lynn]

I found that my personal space is much bigger than Japanese and Koreans. So, I guess that stereotype rings true for me.

As for others...I just laugh when Americans say, "oh Japanese children! They are so quiet". I worked at the public junior high school for one year, and the public elementary schools for 2 years in Japan. Japanese children are anything but quiet. In fact, they are encouraged to be loud. The louder the "genki" er. Parents blush with pride when a 1st grader yells his name at the top of his lungs.

Most of my lesson was actually taught in Japanese. I often told them that English is different than Japanese. In English, it's okay to say it in a regular voice.

[khmerhit]

Excuse me, Capergirl, could you please move over a bit. You and Lynn are crowding me.

I had a roomate once-- we called him Personal Space McNally. He had taught in China for a year or two, and he had forgotten the lines of demarcation.

[Celeste]

Now that I have live in Japan for almost 2 years, and had previously lived in Korea for 2 years, the proximity thing doesn't get me. When I first moved to Korea, though, it was a very big deal. I would get quite stressed out by all of the pushing and jostling in the markets, on the bus, in line at the bank machine, etc. When I went to Vancouver at Christmas, it was very strange for me that people would not sit or stand within a metre of eachother in any of those situations if they could help it.

[Roger]

Capergirl,
that was a nice joke on you! Pulling your leg!
In China, the teacher stands on a silly raised dais. He or she is literally above his or her students.
Physical and personal distances melting into class difference.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

The personal-space thing doesn't bother me, although I did become aware of it quickly when I first moved here. Of course, there are individual variances, but most locals tend to get physically closer to other people than what would be considered the norm where I come from (Midwest USA.)

I notice it especially on public transportation (city buses and vans,) where much of the time physical contact is unavoidable. However, on those rare occasions where there are a number of empty seats on a bus, I've noticed that natives usually don't sit next to foreigners unless they know them. If the last empty seat on a bus is next to a foreigner, a local will sit there but then move as soon as another seat becomes available. This might be a local thing, however, rather than common throughout the country. Observing who sits next to whom on city buses could be a whole study in itself regarding factors such as gender, age, native/foreign, apparent social class status (although people of the upper classes seldom if ever use public transport here,) apparent level of sanity, etc.

I've also observed that it's common for people who know each other to touch each other in conversation, again something that isn't very common in my home culture. Here quite a few people I know at school (custodians, secretaries, other teachers, bosses, and students) frequently make physical contact when talking to me.

Here in this culture if I were in the situation mentioned in Capergirl's post (conversation group around a table with extra chairs,) I wouldn't expect any of my students to take seats next to me. I think it would be a matter of protocol. The person in charge is given extra space just because he/she is recognized as the person in charge.

[Shaman]

When I took the subway in Japan, I noticed the space issue too. At first, I thought that maybe they were afraid of gaijin cooties. However, once the car became a little less densely packed, they would automatically disperse so that everyone was afforded some elbow room.

Shaman

P.S. How's the weather out there, Capes? Quite a nasty dusting out in that neck of the woods.

[Capergirl]

@Roger - I don't think they were pulling my leg. They were quite serious.

@Ben Round de Bloc - I suppose you are right in that it was a matter of "protocol". However, I explained to them that it made me a little uncomfortable that they were distancing themselves from me in this way. A little elbow room is great but you can sit in the chair beside me and not crowd my 'personal space'.

@Shaman - The blizzard we got in the Maritimes last week is being called a "weather bomb". Halifax got 96 cms of snow. They've had a curfew all weekend so that the plows can try to clear the streets in order to restore public transportation for Monday. Those of us here on the Cape only got about a third of that...we were lucky.

@khmerhit - LMAO @ "Personal Space McNally"...too funny!

[Ulyanov]

[thelmadatter]

Caper - these students were told this, I suspect, in the way we are taught little cultural blurbs in foreign language textbooks. I think there is no way to teach culture in a foreign language context w/o a certain amount of stereotyping, there is just no way to teach the myriad of intracacies involved in any culture.

The "stereotype" Im having a tough time with is getting my Mexican co-workers to speak Spanish with me. Ive about given up. I have a bachelor�s in Spanish but that doesnt mean I can SPEAK the language (only that I can pass the tests). To get them to speak any, I have to remind them explicitly to try and as soon as I stumble in Spanish, they immediately switch back to English. I thought maybe that it was just a convenience thing but we recently got a teacher of Mandarin from China and they speak Spanish to her (she does speak English too but prefers Spanish). Two days ago, one the Mexican teachers stepped into our office (I share an office with the Mandarin teacher) and while she did speak Spanish, she kept looking at me checking to see if I understood and kept trying to translate to English. It takes hiring a person from China for me to finally have someone to talk in Spanish to at the office! lol

OK I know why the stereotype exists but this situation is frustrating.

[Lanza-Armonia]

Steriotypes huh? Only a matter of time huh?

Just a quick comment on this topic.

Has anyone noticed that the little boys in China are some of the cutest lickle fecker around and they grow up to be these currupt, bad looking, disgusting people and you know, KNOW!!!! that they would have half a chance if they lived in any western country. Just a thought....

LA

[Roger]

Capergirl,
I may have mistaken your students for East Asians, but the word "culture sensitivity class" is a phrase that I do not expect my Chinese students to know except as something targeted at their foreign teacher.
As some wrote, I do notice a tendency of locals to avoid immediate physicial proximity to non-Chinese. Especially in Hong Kong - yes: Hong Kong, that former British colony! - old ladies make a rather unmistakable demonstration of moving away from next to you as soon as another seat farther becomes free.
In classrooms, my impression however is that students avoid being in front so they cannot be talked to directly.
There also is this very special East Asian "avoid eye contact" thing, which I to this day find so unsettling. Chinese can often be heard talking to each other without looking into each other's face. Often I would see an adult woman talking to another female passenger two or three rows away from her in a bus.
This contrasts with their staring at you, often in your eyes, unblinkingly; only bosses seem to enjoy the right of having other people looking at them when they speak to them.
It makes me wonder if this is just one other culturally-induced tactic to avoid responsability - as in the "save face" tactic.
In classrooms, students are in extremely close proximity to one another, though their teacher is, as I pointed out before, in a literally exalted position. Students almost never speak up unless in chorus. That's their training.

[Deborann]

Depends on the situation - I think politeness overcomes the space issue. Last week I was on an incredibly crowded bus, and an older Chinese lady squashed over, managed to make about 4 inches of space on her seat and basically offered me (a TOTAL stranger) the 4 inches. I sat for the rest of the trip between her legs! Very up close and personal for both of us.
During the break in class, my students will also crowd around, closely, asking me questions.

[Wolf]

I got used to the (lack of) personal space thing ages ago, but I found the biggest deal were crowds and living space, not social interaction distance. Daily commutes on Japanese subways and occasional commutes on Chinese buses and trains kind of beat it out of me. I live alone, and for me that's all I need to stay sane.

Most guys seem to give me reasonable personal space anyway (maybe it's a guy thing, I dont' know.) Sometimes women do, somethimes they don't. Really can't complain about that one all too much.

I used to worry about my Chinese students comitting a social faux pas around Westerners in the personal space department (same-sex friends can walk arm and arm, hold hands, ect and it's okay), but if their interactions with me are any example, they won't have problems.

In Japan, I found the locals ignored me in crowded places like subways, and then rarely got close enough to touch me at other times. I didn't notice a huge difference in that regard from "back home."

[Snoopy]

All right, I have spent too many years in the Middle East, but the Gulf Arabs are the people closest to brain death you could not wish to meet.