Job Discussion Forums

kneezah · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Taiwan

I've been in talks with an HR rep in a school called ESL4Asia. I've been trying to find out a little more about the about the school but am coming up empty handed (with the exception of the company's website). I was wondering if anyone knew anything about this school or has had any experience with it?

killian · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:20 am Post subject:

if you were a parent shopping for a school, would you send your kid to a place called "ESL4asia"? no. of course not. sounds (NOTE: sounds) like an agent. get him to provide a street address of the school. get the "does business as" name. sounds like he "specializes" in all of asia. that's a big area to specialize in, isn't it?

there are hundreds of jobs out there. even being super cautious can leave you burnt. any tinge of dishonesty may very well only be amplified upon greater inspection.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

Killian is spot on here. ESL4ASIA are recruiters (AKA Towards International Education Services). The usual recommendations of taking things carefully and asking lots of questions apply.

It seems that this recruiter doesn�t collect money from the school on a regular basis. They state that they get a one off commission, which if true, is the best way to go when dealing through a recruiter. DON�T get involved with an agent that either collects a monthly fee from you, or collects your wages from the school on your behalf.

The contract that you sign seems to be with the school that you are working at which is good. Overall the contract seems reasonable. There are a few things that stood out to me though:

1. The monthly salary for 100 hours is NTD50,000 (or NTD500 per hour). This is quite low. I wouldn�t take the job unless they were offering at least NTD550 per hour. Negotiate this!
2. It seems that sick leave is considered unpaid leave. I would negotiate at least six paid sick days for the year. If you are new to Taiwan you will almost certainly get a stomache upset at some time, so need some time off to recover.
3. I notice that you can resign the contract with two months notice. Whilst technically not legal, this is a good clause for teachers.

Seems to me to be okay. You definitely want more money, but if you can get a higher wage going through this recruiter it may be okay.

One final thing, I noticed a picture of an elementary school classroom on their website. If you get offered a job at a government school you really need to ensure that it is in fact a legal position as many aren�t.

Good luck

kneezah · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Taiwan

Thanks for all the helpful advice Brian.

Yes, I have to admit ESL4Asia is a pretty bad name. But I don't want to judge a school only by it's name. From my understanding they are a combination recruiting company, language bookstore and school. So somedays you would be working for the school and others they would "rent" you out to other schools. They provide you with an appartment in the school building. They will also provide you with transportation to the schools they are lending you to.

I've browsed quite a few ads but I've never heard of an arrangement like this... Is it common?

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

The last post mentioned:

1. They provide you with an appartment in the school building.

2. They will also provide you with transportation to the schools they are lending you to.

To me, this sound like you will have no time to yourself, independence or freedom.

This would be dangerously putting all your eggs in one basket. Watch out!

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

My understanding is that they are purely a recruitment firm. They don�t have any of their own schools. They sell books online, but it is unclear whether these are books that they themselves produce, but more that they are re-sellers of these books. They are most definitely a standard recruit in most respects.

The concept of lending you out to other schools would be pretty much illegal here in Taiwan. If they have communicating to you that this is how they do things, I would find another recruiter as they either, a) don�t know the laws; b) are ignoring them. Either way I don�t think that they would be a company that you want to work for. To be a legal teacher here in Taiwan you need to get an ARC. The name of your employer needs to be on this ARC, and this name should match the name of the school/company that hangs on the certificate in your school. Any discrepancy here would be a cause for concern. If you find yourself being sent to branches of the same school you are skirting the law but should find that YOU are okay. The schools may get fined if they caught. If you find yourself working for totally different schools then you are more than likely working illegally.

Be wary of school provided accommodation. It is not a bad thing in theory, but in practice it can be a bit draining. It�s far better to score some free accommodation for a short period of time (say two weeks), after which you get an accommodation subsidy of NTD5000 or so, and find your own place to move into. This subsidy won�t cover all of your rent, but you will be much better off than in most of the places schools put you in. Say thanks, but no thanks, to school accommodation.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

Please read this,
http://www.geocities.com/taiwanteacher2002/Success.html
Good luck
A.

killian · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:29 am Post subject: #9?

is number 9 still valid in light of the recently changes to the ARC process? the much "beloved "tealit site has a banner something like "now for some ROYALLY good news" in which a taiwanese lawyer (alden su, iirc) translates that we don't need to quit or do visa runs anymore, but rather simply find a new job and the schools have to sort it out after that.

if the only constant is change, taiwan is the north star.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

I had heard this was the case but was waiting for more confirmation. It seems that this may be the confirmation that I was waiting for. It is good news, and just makes sense.

The only downside is that Aristotle has now lost his major defence for working illegally, in that he previously claimed that employer sponsorship of your ARC roughly equated to slavery. You never know, but he might just become a convert to working legally, just as Okami has. Maybe the days of working illegally in Taiwan are coming to an end!

Okami · Joined: 25 Jan 2003 Posts: 121 Location: Sunny Sanxia

jason_seeburn · Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Posts: 399 Location: Toronto

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

jason_seeburn · Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Posts: 399 Location: Toronto

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Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

kneezah · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Taiwan

No, unfortunately I don't have the address of the school. I know it's located in Taipai. I'm assuming it's in a relatively large building since it houses a bookstore on one floor, classrooms on another and rooms for teachers on the top floors. The lady I've been in contact with is named Sally. She seems really friendly and up-front about things. They also have a very in-depth website. I'm not sure if this is a chain school or not. Despite what I've heard about recruiting agencies, this place seems pretty reputable. I'm kind of surprised that no one's has heard of it before though.