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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: I'd like to buy a vowel please |
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| tokyoworkingman wrote: |
| Not exactly a fan of the Hoffa man myself but what a buch of *beep* you all are. Shmooj? Why the need to reply to every damn forum in existence? Especially when you have nothing of relevance to contribute. Your alter ego wouldn't be Glenski? And easyasabc, you seem to like to criticize apostrophy usuage but you have yet to grasp the fundamentals of commas. |
And then there's those like myself who like to criticize poor spelling.
Ahem, apostrophe.
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tokyoworkingman wrote: |
| Not exactly a fan of the Hoffa man myself but what a buch of *beep* you all are. Shmooj? Why the need to reply to every damn forum in existence? Especially when you have nothing of relevance to contribute. Your alter ego wouldn't be Glenski? And easyasabc, you seem to like to criticize apostrophy usuage but you have yet to grasp the fundamentals of commas. |
Otherwise agreed though, tokyoworkingman. Who is this mysterious general union bloke that pops up every now and then simply to promote the union?
My comments would echo easyasabc's. I wouldn't be keen on joining a union.
How do the Japanese view the prospects of a union for foreigners in Japan? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
Otherwise agreed though, tokyoworkingman. Who is this mysterious general union bloke that pops up every now and then simply to promote the union?
My comments would echo easyasabc's. I wouldn't be keen on joining a union.
Not not until your employer pulls a swift one on you, 'forgets' to pay your wages, not enrol you in health and unemployment insurance when he is supposed to, tries to fire you or discipline you for 'socialising with students
How do the Japanese view the prospects of a union for foreigners in Japan? |
The union in question is not a foreigner union but a registered Japanese union with a mainly foreign membership base. The Osaka union is affiliated with Japanese Rengo which has i believe about 400,000 union members as well as the Tokyo Union of General Workers The chief Japanese negotiator in the Osaka union has over 25 years experience. Japanese nationals also belong to the osaka union and it protects Japanese secretaries and office workers working at language schools, as well as Japanese teachers working at universities and language schools.
Employers are bound by law to negotiate with the union when called upon and can and have been taken to court over labour infingements. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
This is the blurb on their website if you bothered to look.
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I didn't bother to look because I knew I was not part of the desired population.
Seems to me that if a person or organization wants something out of someone, e.g. taking a survey, he/she/it should make it easier, rather than harder, to get a bit of background info. Even if I were a dispatch teacher, I would not want to have to do the background research by myself in order to complete a survey. But that's just me.
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Interesting.
As always, many thanks for the insights Paul. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| I took the survey. I'm not a member, but I respect what they do. Foreign teachers are looked upon as disposable revenue producers. In just my short three years in Japan I have seen working conditions and salary packages worsen. The people at the general union are not psychics. They need information in order to better understand the trends of the market place. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| guest of Japan wrote: |
| I took the survey. I'm not a member, but I respect what they do. Foreign teachers are looked upon as disposable revenue producers. In just my short three years in Japan I have seen working conditions and salary packages worsen. The people at the general union are not psychics. They need information in order to better understand the trends of the market place. |
I agree. My main, uh, complaint, for lack of a better word, is that we're not psychics either (or at least, I'm not)--if I see a post that says "please complete our survey," I want to know who it's for, what the organization stands for, etc. And whose responsibility is it to make that information known? If I need help, I will go out and do the research on my own. Finding information is my responsibility. In this case, if a group is asking people to make time to complete a survey, I'd say it's the group's responsibility to make the information known.
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tokyoworkingman
Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
I agree. My main, uh, complaint, for lack of a better word, is that we're not psychics either (or at least, I'm not)--if I see a post that says "please complete our survey," I want to know who it's for, what the organization stands for, etc. And whose responsibility is it to make that information known? If I need help, I will go out and do the research on my own. Finding information is my responsibility. In this case, if a group is asking people to make time to complete a survey, I'd say it's the group's responsibility to make the information known.
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Early you said that you didn't take they survey as you knew you weren't part of the desired population. You figured that out pretty easily or were you just psychic? |
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Robbo
Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Sydney,Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Take it easy Big Fella! I think we're all here to help each other. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sigh. I am mentally gifted enough to be able to guess what "dispatch teachers" could possibly mean and to realize that I'm not one of them. Beyond that, I had no clue, and given that I knew enough to know that I wasn't being targeted, I decided not to invest my time finding out more about it. Enough, already!
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Laura C
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:16 am Post subject: |
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A union is set up to help ensure that working conditions are improved or kept at a reasonable standard. There is nothing wrong with that, and anyone who doesn't want to participate doesn't have to! imho...
Easyasabc, I can see your point that those who take jobs with poorer conditions are setting a precedent, but not everyone planning to go to Japan reads forums like Daves, and so they don't know what the standard conditions are or that they are being offered terms below them. Big schools rely on this, I think -- taking on people who are so enthusiastic to get to Japan and who only find out that their contract is screwing them after they get here and realise what the norm is. That's when a union can be helpful I think.
I don't see what the problem is here with unions. Surely they are set up to protect workers' interests? If people don't want to take part, they don't. Simple.
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einsenundnullen
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I looked at the site a few days ago, and iirc there are surveys for different types of teachers; eikaiwa, dispatch ALT, and two others I think.
In so far as a proper explanation of the purpose of survey is concerned, if you couldn't guess at that with some degree of accuracy based on the short original post by the union rep, perhaps you should check your reading comprehension skills.
Guest's post describing us as 'disposable revenue producers' couldn't be more accurate in my opinion, and we're probably very fortunate that the union exists.
Chris |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: |
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!Ay! As a matter of fact, I could guess the content--I'm actually reasonably intelligent. My point is that I should not have had to.
To illustrate:
A while back, there was a poster here--don't remember who--who was desperate for help, but did not go into full details is his or her post. Instead, the poster said something like, "see my full post on the (???) forum." Instead of giving us enough information to help, he/she made any potential responders go out of their way to track down the info and offer help. If people want help, they should make it easy, rather than difficult, to help them.
OK, I've already broken my own vow to say no more on this topic and stop defending myself. I am quite ready to move on.
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| tokyoworkingman wrote: |
| Why ...reply to every damn forum in existence? |
time off  |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:12 pm Post subject: Are you ready to ROK? |
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shmooj,
Good to see that you made it to the ROK. |
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