Job Discussion Forums

[Prof.Gringo]

A friend of mine was here in Mexico and managed to make it a year and a half. He went to S. Korea and lasted about 3 months. Something about cold weather, cold people and crap food.

I never entered ESL/TEFL teaching as a way or means to make big $$$. It's an adventure for me. Something fun and different. I can make good money in the US (even with the economic problems I can still find work, no prob.)

There are places in Asia that might be worth a look if I wasn't married

Alas, I'm here and I'm not going there. For all it's worth, Mexico has a lot of good points. Gotta see things for what they are, not what we want them to be. Take off the rose colored lenses, doesn't matter if it's Mexico, Korea or Ethiopia.

[bardolf]

I've taught for about 3 years in Korea, and I like it just fine, although the first year was rather nasty. But I visited Mexico once, stayed about a month, spoke a little Spanish, and had a wonderful time, and I've dreamed of going back ever since.

But first I want to get a Master's degree of some kind, so I can have a possibility of getting a job in a university. I know a Master's degree doesn't mean I will automatically get such a job, but I think it would increase my chances.

Korea is definitely not for everyone. For one thing, it's a gamble. Legally, you're living in a stacked deck; if you quit a contract prematurely, or are fired, you need a "letter of release" from your employer in order to apply for another job -- but the employer is under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to give you that letter. Of course, there are all kinds of situations, and some employers are less petty than others, but the fact remains, YOU HAVE (almost) NO RIGHTS.

So if you find yourself in an unpleasant situation, your options are limited... BUT ... Koreans seem to respect people who fight back loud and hard.

The bright side? Frankly speaking, for some people, there are none....but the fact remains that year after year, of the tens of thousands of people who come here to teach English, MANY RETURN. Most of the other foreigners I meet are returnees.... crappy little apartments notwithstanding.

Before the Won started its nosedive, you could save a lot of money; now all bets are off... the future is uncertain and the end is always near, as Jim Morrison said so memorably.

Well, I could go on and on; but I will just end with this: Many well-informed people are extremely worried about Mexico these days.

First: The U.S. Joint Forces Command recently issued a report which stated that Mexico is one of two countries which may soon undergo "a rapid and sudden collapse." (The other country is Pakistan.)

The report states "the Mexican government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels...Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

The Joint Forces Command, I read on Wikipedia, is a big thing in the U.S. Armed Forces, kind of a think tank it seems; so what they say is worth some consideration. Unless I'm really in the dark, the very LAST thing the U.S. would want is some kind of catastrophic systemic collapse in Mexico (just think about it), so the fact that they're actually worrying about it is alarming.

Second: The pseudonymous columnist "Spengler" of the Asia Times, a man who commands great respect for the depth of his education, experience, erudition, and contacts among various American and international power brokers, recently had this to say:

********************************

I am extremely worried about Mexico.

First, the collapse of oil prices vastly increases the relative power of the [drug] cartels.

Second, California's fiscal collapse (and that of some other states) is pushing illegals back to Mexico where they have no jobs and no safety net, which is bad for political stability.

Third, I know from people inside the drug war in Mexico that the cartels have been winning -- not "have won," but certainly have been gaining ground. Watch for personnel changes in the Mexican government as a signal of further gains by the cartel during the next few weeks. My mystical intuition tells me that the ratchet will move for the worse sometime soon.

Otherwise, I won't guess. I haven't visited the country in a long time and don't have a fingertip-feeling of what is happening on the ground.

It is hideously tragic. The Mexican people have been betrayed by their governments and their upper class so often that many of them have become demoralized, in the literal sense of having lost morality.

*******************

You can easily find the Joint Forces thing with a bit of googling, and as for Spengler, here's his archive:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/spengler.html

(The Spengler quote above was not from any of his published columns, but rather from his forum: the thread is http://spengler.atimes.net/viewtopic.php?t=12101 )

[Guy Courchesne]

may soon undergo a rapid and sudden collapse?

[girlcabbie]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going!
I've been in Mexico since the beginning of the year. My original plan was to head to Guadalajara and look for a job.
Then I stopped in Teacapan for a night. This is day 14. It's really small, right on the beach, there's not much of a market for English lessons. Am working for room and board at the moment.
And this is the most amazing thing I've ever done in my life.
People have welcomed me into their homes. I've been out dancing at the disco. I bought two bags of fruit, including a pineapple, for $5 US. On Saturday morning, at 5 am, I get to help kill, clean, cook and eat a pig! (sorry veggies) I LOVE it here!

[MO39]

Well, Guy, it's obvious that you think we shouldn't put any stock in what this "Spengler" character has to say, but what about the report of the US Forces Joint Command? What do you think this could imply? : "Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone." Should we expats have a Life-Plan B ready to put into action if all hell breaks loose?

[Guy Courchesne]

Sounds to me more like wargaming scenarios - so to speak - than any serious prediction making. Sort of like having those dusty war plans on the shelf for a US invasion of Canada.

To speak of a sudden and rapid collapse in Mexico would have to ignore the decade of economic stability in Mexico, the emergence of a truer democracy (PRI losing their 71 year dominance of the state at every level), the relatively stable peso over the last decade, the independence of the Bank of Mexico and large foreign reserve holding, the stabilization of the banking sector as a whole, liquidity in the credit markets - WITHOUT a US style credit crunch as credit was never easy to get in Mexico, and lastly, in the worst case scenario, the precedent of swift US asistance during the 1994 'Tequila Crisis" where the US could not afford an unstable Mexico on its border, which I guess is the argument put in place by the US forces joint command.

I suppose a Plan B is a good idea any time, anywhere. Many folks in New Orleans had no plan B. I suppose mine is to go back to Canada, though my experience in Mexico tells me that plan is going to collect quite a bit of dust on the shelf.

[MELEE]

Rapid and sudden collapse. That's really funny. Bushie's parting gift to the world--fear.

[john_n_carolina]

...if there's a Starbuck's nearby...the economy's OK.

surely the MX economy is better off than Somalia?

[thelmadatter]

The Joint Command report is far more worried about Pakistan than Mexico. They feel that a quick and sudden collapse is possible here but more likely in Pakistan.

Report on the report http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11858

The fact of the matter is that if Mexico ever falls into chaos the US will have to intervene at some point. There will simply be no way to contain the consequences on the Mexican side of the border. There is fear now of drug violence spilling across (even more than the isolated incidences that have already happened) There is a huge disconnect between Mexico City and the north, both politically and culturally, notwithstanding that PAN's powerbase is in the north and Ive met more than a few northerners who hate chilangos more than the any gringo. That certainly doesnt dispose them to working with federal authorities and many here in the DF consider the north to be filled with wild savages (ok a slight exaggeration)

I dont think the Joint Forces report is "fear-mongering" by the ever-so-evil Bush ... it is possible. One thing the report states is the next few years are crucial.. therefore they recognize that it is possible for Mexico to get a grip on the situation.

However, personally I dont think that will really happen until the country finally gets sick of the violence and it willing to do what it takes to take down the cartels. Problem is now that few are willing to deal with the ugliness that will necessarily entail.

[MO39]

[quote="thelmadatter"]
There is a huge disconnect between Mexico City and the north, both politically and culturally, notwithstanding that PAN's powerbase is in the north and Ive met more than a few northerners who hate chilangos more than the any gringo. That certainly doesnt dispose them to working with federal authorities and many here in the DF consider the north to be filled with wild savages (ok a slight exaggeration)

Thelmadatter's mention of "savages" in northern Mexico brought to mind the word "Chichimecas", which was how the hunter-gatherers who roamed the arid area north of Mesoamerica in pre-HIspanic times were referred to by the Aztecs. According to an entry in Wikipedia, the word means "barbarians" or perhaps "red-skins" in Nahuatl. It seems farfetched, I know, but perhaps there's some historical connection between the vast cultural differences that separated the Chichimecas and the civilizations of Mesoamerica and the current disconnect between Mexico City and the north that thelmadatter discusses above.

[Guy Courchesne]

I always thought the modern Chichimecas were those living just over the Rio Bravo.

[scottmx81]

That the US financial system nosedives even further in 2009/2010, perhaps even culminating with the collapse of the US dollar and the US taking Mexico and Canada down with it, maybe even with US occupation under the premise of national security, and the subsequent emergence of a more integrated North American Union, is something that I consider a remote possibility. That Mexico would collapse independently of the US under the weight of the drug cartels is not something that even registers as a remote possibility in my opinion.

I think this is a case of a local author writing a story for a local newspaper, that got picked up by AP and spread around the Internet like wildfire as a result. I agree with Guy that it is wargaming scenarios and not serious prediction making, and that someone, somewhere in the US military probably even has the job of planning the invasion of Canada in the case of collapse. We don't even have a legitimate government right now (parliament was suspended by someone acting on behalf of the Queen - WTF??). I'm sure someone, somewhere, is studying the same thing in the case of our country as well. It doesn't mean it's likely though.

[john_n_carolina]

...good points, Scott -- i agree with the second, but not the first. the drug war is similar to the drug wars of the late 70's early 80's in the U.S. i will just come and go. on top of that, no one is buying drugs. consumption is down altogether and the whole Western World is on a "frugality" freakout. hence, 11 different used clothes stores in my town. on Saturday, I went to a donation store that sits right in front of a Lowes. there were more cars at the donation center than Lowes.

consumer spending is way down, including coke. recently, i heard an interviewon NPR about the thousands and thousands of cars sitting in Long Beach, CA. not only that, but the export cargo boxes are sitting around empty also.

so, you're point about the drug cartels bringing down MX is valid. the other point (that we've discussed before) with the collapse of the U.S. dollar and going to the Amero won't happen.

history goes in cycles and so does economics. but, look for the U.S. to be more nationalized and selfish in the next few decades while L.America strengthens itself with better unions and help from the East.

they've got a long ways to go; but, then again how modern do we need to be anyways?

MOD EDIT

[bardolf]

It seems that the new and disturbing element in Mexico is the extent to which the drug gangs are infiltrating, intimidating, and corrupting higher and higher levels of the federal government, the judiciary, and law enforcment. THAT is what is producing the current anxieties.

Everyone should certainly have a Plan B. The worst case scenario is that criminal-gang pressure on the government would actually grow to the point of making effective governance impossible.

At this point I would still consider moving to Mexico, but of course I'd always have a Plan B, and I'd keep a careful eye on the news.

By the way here's a New York Times story from just a few days ago:

"The soaring level of violence in Mexico resulting from the drug wars there has led the United States to develop plans for a “surge” of civilian and perhaps even military law enforcement should the bloodshed spread across the border, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Wednesday...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/us/08chertoff.html?_r=2

[MO39]