Job Discussion Forums

[hulltiger]

As we all know, the trouble with EFL teaching in the UK and in general is that we are still not regarded as 'real' teachers. Our professionalism is still called into question. Attempting to explain to friends and relatives what we do is hard enough, "no I don't teach in a secondary school" is a line I have to come out with many a time.

The question is also does having a DELTA make you more professional? It is an attempt at doing that but it is not necessarily so. Some people have years of experience plus a CELTA and are brilliant teachers, some people have CELTA and DELTA and are not that effective teachers, while others make the more expensive investment in an ELT Masters degree instead of the DELTA but the MA is not necessarily valued by some language schools in the UK which I believe is wrong and ignorant.

Also, most EFL teachers are not part of the teaching union:
http://www.ucu.org.uk/

and crucially, their employers do not, by and large, pay into the Teachers Pension Scheme:
http://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/

Until EFL teachers and English Language Colleges take these two issues seriously the EFL 'industry' in this country and worldwide will not be regarded as a profession and our EFL teachers will not be protected against low pay and poor conditions.

This is a bad situation.
Why do language schools not contribute to the Teachers Pension Scheme? Why are they outside of that?
Why are Teflers not in the UCU? Is it our fault? What could the UCU do for Tefl teachers in this country?

Surely we are either teachers or we are not teachers. Language schools have been exploiting our ambiguous status and lack of unity for years now. Is there no organisation that stands up for Tefl teachers?

"ELT Teachers of the World Unite!"

[Pelican_Wrath]

What I've found out in doing my PGCE training is that normal Primary Schools do have EAL specialists... perhaps that could be an avenue to consider?

[hulltiger]

Thanks for that tip, I'll definitely look into that, could be a new direction for me.

[austeacher]

The problem is that unless it is a full diploma, with a teaching practicum inclusive, then the ESL qualification generally will not be considered as a teaching tool.

In Australia everyone is doing some crapshoot ESL certificate. Essentially those like me, who possess a Graduate Diploma in TESOL, delivered on campus with qualified academics delivering the instructional theoretical material, will be considered for jobs at government schools.

There are way too many generic ESL certificates to choose from. The most comprehensive and well informed studies are at Uni in my opinion; as the studies will generally be recognised by government and (Professional) industry. Not some corner shop training school.

[coledavis]

I'm not sure how much unionism and increased professionalism will do in the face of market forces. Let's compare ourselves with secondary school teachers: they have to have a degree, one that includes their teaching specialism, and then a one year postgraduate course. Ok, you can drop the specialism when it comes to primary teachers, but they still do the one year postgraduate course. We on the other hand do a four week training course, following a degree in any subject and being native speakers of English. There a lot of English speakers about, when you take into account North America, Australasia, the British Isles and South Africa. Also, thanks to 'Widening Participation' to higher education, there are now many more graduates than there ever were before in history. In short, we're ten a penny.

I would suggest that attending a widely recognised course such as the CELTA is useful, as is gaining subsequent experience. The DELTA is helpful if you are thinking of managing; a Masters in Applied Linguistics is perhaps more helpful if you want to become more sophisticated in teaching methods or related areas.

While unions and pension schemes would be useful things to have, I think trying to discourage people from mickey mouse courses would be a better move and encouraging employers to ignore the graduates of these courses would also be good. I rather think that the market forces problem, in the face of owners who are primarily business people, are likely to prevent progress in the area of working conditions. At least we might ride out the recession a bit better than many better paid people; assuming that our pay is a bit better than their dole...

[austeacher]

Quote: I think trying to discourage people from mickey mouse courses would be a better move and encouraging employers to ignore the graduates of these courses would also be good. I rather think that the market forces problem, in the face of owners who are primarily business people, are likely to prevent progress in the area of working conditions. At least we might ride out the recession a bit better than many better paid people; assuming that our pay is a bit better than their dole...

That is a good point Coledavis. There are way too many people doing ESL certificates of any type. I think a benchmark tool for teaching in ESL ought to be established, but encouraging policy change globally would require the efforts of combined University level institutions to make " a Graduate Diploma in TESOL" a compulsory teaching tool to deliver learning systems.

The good thing is that in Australia this is recognised in leading providers of ESL teaching and delivery. We have a major ESL education provider that will employ only teachers with a Graduate Diploma in TESOL.

The fact is there are way too many employers globally who don't know the difference between a mickey mouse certificate as you say, and a University approved teaching benchmark in ESL. The gravy train is a major draw card for that as employers assume if I can set up any type of ESL school without government regulation therefore any type of ESL certificate is acceptable.

Choice is what holders of higher qualifications have. We can choose what is a quality learning institute and face less opposition; as those with benchmark qualifications can set the norm of what is a respectable teaching qualification.

One also has to remember that a 'Graduate Diploma in TESOL' requires a level of academic competence to achieve the learning outcomes to qualify as a teacher. It is the equivalent to a Grad Dip in Primary or Secondary education. By the way is ESL is a specialism. As a subject method it truly is the equivalent of a specialism designed for Primary or Secondary learners of ESL.

[workingnomad]

You can understand people thinking of you as not real teachers. Real teaching involves 4 years of study or a mega hard PGCE.

EFL can be done online in a weekend and that can actually be enough if you are native!





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Budget Flights

[coledavis]

[postpran]

Well it can go the other way in the U.K. I have six years of university study. A BA in English and an MA in English with a four month post-graduate course in teaching academic writing and EFL and over 60 hours of observed teaching at the university level.

I have taught EFL and English in universities and language schools for over 10 years.

However, since I don't have a CELTA the language schools will not hire me in London. It is a British council thing!

The CELTA is better than nothing but come on!!! It's all a big racket!

Luckily, FE colleges can sometimes see my qualifications. I teach ESOL and EFL at an FE college in London for �28/hour.

Most language schools are a scam! They need to be challenged so students/customers demand more than CELTA teachers. Down with IH and their ilk!!!

[coledavis]

[postpran]

Yes I agree. My post was a bit too harsh. Certainly the CELTA seems to have some good points but it just seems like there should be more options in terms of training. Perhaps it is a decent initial introduction.

The CELTA is big business and it needs to be scrutinized more closely and not simply accepted as the only true professional course for teaching EFL/ESL. I have seen/heard teachers advertise their CELTA as coming FROM Cambridge.

A lot (most?) language schools and the CELTA are really about making money in a circular way. They feed on each other. It doesn't really matter how well the students learn English. Both real teachers and students are often the victims of language school scams.

I think if teachers unionize then it is one step in the right direction. Also, perhaps universities and FE colleges should take over the EFL market in the U.K. I would love to see more language schools go out of business in the U.K.

[coledavis]

[scot47]

You would make more money as a cleaner than in some EFLing jobs. It is probably a more honourable profession too.

[Phil_b]

This seems to be an interesting debate - I think we should take the CELTA as what it is - an introductory course, it in itself does not make you a good teacher and it should not be considered the be all and end all.

Any good institution should insist that its staff do more training than this, this is why I would take issue with this point:

[coledavis]