Job Discussion Forums

[word_to_the_wise]

There are plenty of posts from newbies regarding online cert training....so here's the final word.I'm a DoS (MA +CELTA) with 11 years experience in EFL.I'm presently working for one of the biggest and most reputable global providers.

There is no substitute at entry level for the Cambridge CELTA or Trinity TESOL. Any online cert course is a scam - pure and simple.

What interests me is the line of newbies and the course providers that defend themselves making such comments as 'I'm only going to Mexico,Peru (whatever) for 6 months so it's all I need.' Wrong. What about your hard-working, fee paying students that will be attending your classes? Don't they deserve the best EFL training on offer?

Find the nearest CELTA provider and do it with them - if you want to save time and money then do us all a favour and kindly find another profession.

[denise]

Good luck getting the last word in! There are always people who want an easier/cheaper way to get minimally certified. I fear the debate will continue. Or rather, the number of posts from people wanting jobs without going through the training process will continue.

I just posted a comment on another thread that basically disagreed with you on the name-brand aspect, but I do agree that there is no substitute for proper in-class training with supervised teaching. Sure, there are schools that will hire new teachers with little or no training, but a) the teachers won't be able to do the best possible job and b) the schools themselves can't be all that reputable. And of course, this is just for entry level work, as you mentioned. Better jobs require more training--new teachers really should not expect the rosiest of jobs, salaries, benefits, etc. with just a four-week training course. (Really, what other careers are open to people with only four weeks of training?!?)

I still very strongly disagree that a CELTA is the only way to go. In my opinion, at the risk of offending tons of people, demanding only one particular brand is either lazy or snobby--lazy because maybe the schools can't be bothered to research other TEFL training courses to see if they are legitimate and snobby because, well, there are plenty of courses that provide the same training, so why would you only welcome certificates with the right name printed on them?

For the record, since you posted your stats... I have a TEFL from ITC Prague and an MA, and am now in my 10th year of teaching, most of those years in universities. Never had any DoS-type jobs, and don't want to.

d

[spiral78]

I agree with both denise and word-to:

No online certification is adequate.
Yes, CELTA and Trinity are the name brands, but there are comparable 'generic' courses out there that meet the standard as well.

For the record, I also have an ITC certification from Prague, and now an MA TESL/TEFL from U. Birmingham, England, have been teaching for 12 years, beginning at private language schools, then doing private corporate training, and for the last 8 years at universities.

9 of my 12 years are in Europe, where schools supposedly accept 'only' CELTA - I haven't found this to be true at all. BUT - they do look for that key supervised teaching practice and are loath to hire anyone with a less than 120-hour, on-site certification. And they DO read the fine print!

[word_to_the_wise]

[quote="spiral78"]I agree with both denise and word-to:


Yes, CELTA and Trinity are the name brands, but there are comparable 'generic' courses out there that meet the standard as well.

quote]

Spiral - please elaborate, I'm not aware of any.

[naturegirl321]

I disagree with the OP. There are plenty of dinky good courses. Also, don-t forget SIT.

[spiral78]

'Dinky good?"

Anyway, so far as generic courses that are fairly equivalent to CELTA, to my personal knowledge there is a selection of courses in Prague, for example, offering the basics:

1) 100+ hours on site
2) qualified teacher trainers (meaning trainers with related MA or DELTA + significant experience)
3) supervised teaching practice with real students (not peer trainees) with feedback from said trainers

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I myself have an ITC generic cert from 1998, and have had no problems landing quite respectable jobs with it on my CV in Europe. Though the MA obviously helps now as I move up the career ladder:)

I would agree that the name-brand courses are safest, because it's difficult to judge whether a generic course is really well-designed and delivered, they mostly not being accredited by any outside body. But I can vouch that there are some good ones out there.

Yes, online certs are pretty much useless in almost every case.

[naturegirl321]

I mean, smaller schools. Not bad quality.

[Justin Trullinger]

Hi there- maybe you'd get the last word if you didn't generalize so much.


I agree with you completely about the value of online certs, and about your reasoning for rejecting the idea of a "minimal" cert for minimal needs. (Students deserve better. Bravo for saying it so succinctly.)

BUT. I reject the idea of assigning a brand monopoly, to two courses, based on name, not course quality.

I am also a DOS, similarly qualified to you. (My first cert was trinity, but it is very similar, isn't it?)

Three years ago, when we undertook to offer a four week intensive certificate course here, I investigated Trinity, CELTA, and several others.

I chose the School for International Training's TESOL certificate over all other options. ( Check out http://www.sit.edu/graduate/5191.htm if interested.)

My reasons for preferring this certificate over CELTA or Trinity are many, varied, and pretty involved. So this probably isn't the place.

But in terms of defending it as a qualification which isn't inferior- easy. Trainer qualifications are usually higher. Hours and content are similar, though in some cased the SIT cert goes deeper and longer. (It's slightly longer overall.) Trainer/trainee ratios dictate much smaller courses than the Trinity course I took. Assessment (external adjudication) is considerable longer, and done in greater depth.

It's accredited by a fully accredited US University, and is available for 5 graduate credit hours, and for CEUs.

Internation House accepts it as fully equivalent to the qualifications you name.

As I mentioned before, OP, I fully agree with a lot of what you've written. But I feel that, if you'd like the last word, you need to do your homework. You clearly feel that online quals don't cut it, and I agree. You therefore argue that only Trinity and CELTA are worth anything. You're implying, to newbies who may not know better, that all courses other than Trinity and CELTA are online, and are worthless.

Maybe there aren't other options where you are; but this forum isn't specific to where you are. It is worldwide. There ARE other extremely credible options in other parts of the world.


Best,
Justin

[word_to_the_wise]

Justin

You make some valid points.

I agree entirely that we shouldn't allow CELTA/Trinity to monopolise the training - but as it stands I'm yet to be convinced of any real viable alternatives.When was the last time you saw a job ad for any of the other providers you mention?

I think that it's important to stress that my opposition is to any online training. I'm concerned about newbies taking any course that does not offer TP with 'live' students.

I don't see how my location has anything to do with it......

As an interesting footnote, I've recently observed several teachers - and one with a CELTA failed dismally!!

[naturegirl321]

There are some online courses that involve teaching practise, like English International.

[Madame J]

[Justin Trullinger]

Hi Again,

I only really mentioned one "alternative" certificate course, as it's the only one I know well, but here goes:

[word_to_the_wise]

So I think we can conclude that:

1. We all agree that newbies should avoid online entry-level training.It's a scam.

2. CELTA & Trinity are the two most widely recognised providers, however it is not necessarily a good thing for the ELT profession.

3. There are alternatives (as cited) but newbies must do their research carefully. There absolutely must be 'live' Teaching Practice sessions. Compare the CELTA syllabus with the alternative provider.Ask lots of questions including employment prospects (where exactly did the program grads go? Qualifications and experience of the trainers etc). If you have a specific country in mind, email your prospective employers and check they recognise it.

4. Teachers with CELTA can still fail in-service observations!!!

[Chancellor]

I think you people are full of manure on this one!

I would urge you to check out the actual course content and recognize the simple fact that this is the 21st century and even major accredited universities are offering online degree programs. Also, many people can't just take four to five weeks off from work to go take an onsite course.

Here's one school that offers 250 hours of course content and you have the option of taking the course either onsite or online. In addition to the course, the school offers onsite 10 hours of observation and 10 hours of teaching with real ESL students. Further, if you have a four-year degree recognized by the government of Canada (in any major), the government of Canada recognizes this course (with the teaching practice) as sufficient for TESOL certification.

Here's the link: http://www.ontesol.com/Welcome.asp?modo=2. Take a close look at the course content.

Here's a list of courses recognized by TESL Canada: http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/List_of_Recognized_Programs.htm#ON

[Justin Trullinger]

Welcome Chancellor,

I was wondering when you'd get here!

Through this board, I've learned (from you) about the Ontesol course, and it looks really good to me.

But it's not one of the major online providers that I keep running into. Every day, I get apps from a LOT of online cert holders; most have never set foot in a classroom (as teacher) in their lives, and most couldn't find their behinds with both hands where language teaching is concerned.

Yet they have been mislead into thinking that these meaningless, extremely low priced certificates they've done are of the same value as yours. I resent that a lot, and so should they. Those are the online certificates I keep seeing.

No doubt that any course accepted for TESOL certification by the Canadian government is fine, or in fact better than fine. Most online certs wouldn't have a prayer.

What I said before: